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Opinions On Eye Appeal (Example: 1927-D Mercury Dime)

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 Posted 11/27/2019  5:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hey folks. I recently posted photos of a 1927-D Mercury dime that I'm considering for purchase.
http://goccf.com/t/361201 (US Classic and Colonial Coin Grading)

A few members commented that they thought eye appeal was neutral or on the low side. I just wanted to broaden the discussion to others that might have an opinion on this coin's eye appeal and why. As they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I see even original toning on this piece. Please let me know your thoughts and don't hold back. Thanks!



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 Posted 11/27/2019  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only negative thing I can see about the coin is it's very dull appearance , Lifeless . Other than that it looks like only minute wear .
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 Posted 11/27/2019  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I learned something about "eye appeal" from looking at the PCGS examples. Certainly yours is not worse than "neutral" by those standards.

I think it's an attractive enough coin. Obv in particular looks nice and sharp to me. The dark tarnish on the rims takes away a bit of appeal, but that could be fixed easily enough with a judicious application of 0000 steel wool, without harming the devices.
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 Posted 11/27/2019  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My personal opinion is that I like it overall. I think acetone might help the black gunk on the rim.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The dark tarnish on the rims takes away a bit of appeal, but that could be fixed easily enough with a judicious application of 0000 steel wool, without harming the devices.

Oh, Lord . Please don't mention that word on this forum ,even if it is 0000 .
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 Posted 11/28/2019  10:23 am  Show Profile   Check edweather's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like that look.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please don't mention that word on this forum ,even if it is 0000


That was said with tongue firmly in cheek @T-BOP. Sometimes the holidays stir up a mischievous spirit.

If the price is right, I'd grab that coin for sure. If I don't like it when it arrives, or find a better bargain later, just re-sell.

I do like the idea of CAREFUL swabbing with acetone or GooGone to see if the black is organic (and easily removed)or inorganic (and leave it be). My gut says the latter.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the coin is it's very dull appearance , Lifeless

I agree it is dull looking in these photos.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a Mercury dime fan with now almost 12 full sets, I think it is only OK. Rather dull looking but lots of great details. I really prefer full bands and I find it odd that those horizontal bands are so flat. Unusual since the diagonal and vertical ones ares so clear. Otherwise nice coin.
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 Posted 11/28/2019  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lighting can make things look dull, but it doesn't hide the flat bands overall.
Appearance is a bit weak from the photos. I'd grade low AU-53.

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 Posted 11/28/2019  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-55 Eye Appeal 5/10
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 Posted 12/04/2019  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your thoughts everyone! Hope you all enjoyed the Thanksgiving holiday.

Quote:
The only negative thing I can see about the coin is it's very dull appearance , Lifeless . Other than that it looks like only minute wear .

Interesting observation. I see so many truly 'flat' and 'dull' looking coins on ebay, and for the ones with AU details I surmise it's from overdipping. You know the ones, gray coloration nearly monotone across the entire face of the coin.

In this example I discern a subdued luster beneath a satiny toning. It looks to have original surfaces and generally no scratches/abrasions/etc. I'm tempted to ask the dealer to post an additional photo or two from other angles so I can see just how lustrous (or dull) it truly is.

The following is from the The Complete Guide to Mercury Dimes (2nd ed) by David W. Lange. Great overall reference by the way.
From this, luster is really what differentiates within AU, from 50 to 58, along with surface marks/scuffs/etc.

AU50 --> 1/3 to 1/2 of full luster (33% to 50%)
AU55 --> 2/3 of full luster (66%)
AU58 --> NEARLY FULL (80-100% ?)

Considering luster alone, if given these three options, is it even possible to accurately characterize based on a single 2-dimensional photo? Considering only what I can see in these photos, maybe I see 20% luster, limited btw 11&12 and 6&7 o'clock on each face. But I know real coins that look this way head on will no doubt indicate luster elsewhere when tilted.

So I guess I'd pose this question, if you feel this coin appears dull looking, what would you guess as to the overall percent luster if you were to hypothetically wobble it in a 2x2?...just going on what you know about a coin that looks like this head on.

Edited by one_fine_dime
12/04/2019 10:29 am
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 Posted 12/04/2019  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi again. I thought for contrast I would post pics of a coin I was just looking at. A tough date, this 1923-S looks "dipped out" to me. While the diagonal bands look flat, this could be due to this year/mm being notorious for weak strike. Details are likely AU wear-wise, but it appears wholly lackluster...totally flat, dull, and lifeless (IMO). I'm guessing there is no angle or lighting under which luster would be evident on this one.

Seller has titled this one as "1923S BU Problem Free Mercury dime".

Not sure what he means by "problem free", but my gut tells me PCGS/NGC tag this one as cleaned for sure. So can this coin even be called "BU"? After all, the "B" is for "brilliant".


Edited by one_fine_dime
12/04/2019 10:27 am
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 Posted 12/05/2019  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add one_fine_dime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I guess I'm wondering, when folks say a coin like this looks somewhat dull, with mediocre or low eye appeal, do you mean based on the toning, which seems to be what PCGS bases "eye appeal" on for coins below MS60?

https://www.PCGS.com/eyeappeal
For toning, PCGS uses seven levels of eye appeal, from "Amazing" to "Ugly".

Interestingly, on that PCGS link, the 1927-D Mercury dime in my initial post may most closely resemble the Arkansas Centennial Half Dollar at the bottom of the "Neutral" category. Toning seems generally even but luster seems somewhat subdued.

I think it is somewhat misleading in PCGSs illustrations of these "eye appeal" categories because the coins shown appear to have varying degrees of luster, which should be considered separate from "eye appeal".

Clearly I'm confused as to how luster and eye appeal should be considered. PCGS indicates luster is a grading criteria, which I agree it is, and eye appeal is secondary to luster. For example, will an AU50 coin always have neutral eye appeal? Or will eye appeal necessarily be better on an untoned coin at AU-50. Thoughts? Thanks!
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 Posted 12/05/2019  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dorado to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin!
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 Posted 12/13/2019  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Clearly I'm confused as to how luster and eye appeal should be considered. PCGS indicates luster is a grading criteria, which I agree it is, and eye appeal is secondary to luster. For example, will an AU50 coin always have neutral eye appeal? Or will eye appeal necessarily be better on an untoned coin at AU-50. Thoughts? Thanks!


the more toning the more difficult to determine the underlying luster. sometimes its even more of a guess if the toning is heavy. one reason I stay away from heavily toned coins as for me its too tough to determine those fine grade separations.

you cant just look at one component to determine grade. a lot of beginning collectors make this error in grading. you must take into consideration; strike, luster, surface originality and eye appeal. with surface originality in my mind pulling the most weight.

I think your coin has a lower eye appeal due to the black crud (for lack of a better word) across both sides. this may come off or at least be reduced by an acetone bath. I would not use any type of abrasive on any coin ever. I'm guessing about 30-35% luster remaining but then you have to factor in the remaining 3 components for an actual grade. the strike is on the weaker side on the reverse but the obverse has a average strike so for me they net out. surface preservation for me is in the 7/10 range and eye appeal as is I'm at 6/10. all of these together as it sits I would grade it AU53
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