Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

What Would You Pay For A Full Set Of Reproduction Morgans?

Next Page | Last 15 Replies
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 27 / Views: 1,659Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
United States
182 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  8:01 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add HGK3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have been presented with an interesting proposition, namely to purchase a mostly full set (year and MM) of Morgans. The catch is the seller believes them to be fakes.

There are 105 coins in total and I also believe they are likely fakes. However, they appear to be pretty good quality reproductions. I've attached photos of 3 below for your review.

Weights are generally close to tolerance, with about 50% of the ones I've sampled beings in the 26.6 - 26.75 grams range. The 1883 S pictured below weighs 26.54, while the other two are 26.66 and 26.71 respectively.

None of the coins has any mint state luster remaining, which makes me suspicious (who puts together a whole set but doesn't get even the easiest ones with strong color?). The "oxidation" pattern is very similar on many of the coins, which is also suspicious. Overall, 75% of the coins would probably grade AU to low MS. Given the rarity of some of these coins, again suspicious.

So my questions for the collective wisdom are:

1. What's a fair price (assuming they are not genuine)?

2. What's the easiest way to determine if any of them are genuine? Weight and magnet tests are obvious. Any others?

3. Would you buy it at a reasonable price?

I'm thinking the novelty of having two complete Dansco volumes, no holes, all in reasonably good condition might be worth it.

Any thoughts?









Pillar of the Community
United States
2143 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would never pay anything, Buying counterfeits when you know they are counterfeit is wrong. My 2 cents.
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
16641 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since you are asking for opinions...I was going to say up to $1 per coin, but now that I think about it, I have a lot of other things to drop a hundred bucks on before I by a complete set of Morgans. To say it another way, I'd rather have one real Morgan with a book value of $100 than this set.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Pillar of the Community
Canada
2946 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Check silverwolf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The catch is the seller believes them to be fakes.


they will all be fake..


Quote:
I also believe they are likely fakes. However, they appear to be pretty good quality reproductions.


who are you trying to convince, us, or yourself. you know they are fakes.


Quote:
I'm thinking the novelty of having two complete Dansco volumes, no holes, all in reasonably good condition might be worth it.


you are one of the reasons, why counterfeiters keep making , and selling their coins. If you think 1 or 2 may be real you are wrong,they are all fakes.. they sell them in sets, for 3-4$ a coin.. and the cycle continues, as long as people buy them even knowing they are fake, they will continue to ruin the market, for coins..



Pillar of the Community
Canada
3542 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am inclined to agree with the group that buying them just encourages something that damages the hobby.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17159 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the seller believes them to be fakes, you can bet 'London to a brick on', that they are indeed, fakes. At least, the seller is being mostly honest.

Since they would be sold as fakes, my inclination would be to buy maybe 4 or 5 of the most deceiving of them, at perhaps $2 or $3 each, and add them to my 'black' collection.
Why?
Because here is a great opportunity to educate yourself on how to identify a fake Morgan, and thus protect yourself from being scammed at some time in the future.
That is why I maintain an extensive 'black' collection.

However, 105 of them is a way too many, even if priced at $2 or $3 each. I certainly wouldn't buy all of them; that is just wasting money. You must closely examine each coin in hand, before deciding to buy.
Pillar of the Community
United States
794 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Check Collects82's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I was in your spot, 10 years down the road I would have been happier putting $100-300 into a couple legit, beautiful Morgans than a book of fakes. I look back at some of the things I bought when I was younger and ask myself, "What did I do that for?" as I have less money to buy something else I'd ultimately really rather have.
My hoard of '82s is up to 192! 218 BC x 1, 118 BC x 3, 18 BC x 1, 82 x 1, 182 x 1, 282 x 2, 582 x 2, 682 x 1, 782 x 2, 882 x 1, 982 x 4, 1082 x 1 1182 x 8, 1282 x 2, 1382 x 1, 1482 x 5, 1582 x 12, 1682 x 14, 1782 x 50, 1882 x 49, 1982 x 31
Edited by Collects82
01/13/2020 9:36 pm
Valued Member
United States
262 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2020  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Check Lancek's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Lancek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Selling know fakes without the word "COPY" or "Replica" stamped somewhere on them is illegal. I would not want any part of that transaction.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17159 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  04:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The words "COPY" or "REPLICA" almost never occurs on ancient coins.
So the fakers then reason: "Why not modern coins as well?
In some Eastern European, Middle East Countries and China, it seems that selling fake coins without these words is perfectly legal. Selling authentic coins from origin countries (especially Southern and eastern Europe) is not, because they want to protect their Heritage.
That is one of the reasons why so many fakes from those parts of the World appear in retail collector market Countries.

Most dealers worth their salt maintain a 'black' collection for the same reason that I do: that is, to educate their staff in how to identify and weed out the fakes. Use the fakers's products as a weapon against them.
Not much defense to bury the head in the sand, than to not attempt to look at, and deal with the problem.



One of a few good books I have seen and read on fake coins is
Charles M. Larson's work: Numismatic Forgery ISBN 0-9742371-2-4. Copyright 2004 Publ. by Zyrus Press Irvine CA.
It actually describes how fake coins are made for the reason that their method of manufacture shows the evidence that leads to the identification of the fake, BY it's telltale signs of manufacture.

The book is endorsed by none other than Ken Bresset - past President of the ANA.
Ken Bresset says:
"This book not only helps further our understanding of forgery, it literally puts us in the shoes and mind of the forger. Charles M Larson's book takes us to the place in that pantheon of must-read books for every numistmatist and collector"
Pillar of the Community
United States
2389 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  05:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since the US has not demonetized any of it's coins and you can still use a Morgan as a dollar wouldn't these be considered counterfeit? Therefore wouldn't it would be a federal offense to sell, buy, try to spend, or even own them?
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
7265 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  05:23 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's the legal position on this? I realize that there are millions of counterfeit Morgans around, but they are still legal tender US coins and I'd have thought it was "illegal to own a coin or bill that you have reason to believe is counterfeit" (Page 269, 'The Complete Book of United States Coin Collecting' by Norman M Davis). I agree with silverwolf that buying a large quantity of known forgeries from someone who admits they are distributing fakes is just encouraging more counterfeiting.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
17159 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  05:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder how many of us have a fake 1804 silver Dollar?
I do. Just for fun.
It is the only way I will ever get to own one.
Valued Member
United States
453 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srcliff to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not knowing much about counterfeits maybe this is a stupid question but is there a chance any have actual silver content? Seems like everyone believes they would be worth below scrap value so I assume no one thinks they are even bullion.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3405 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  09:31 am  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fake Coins hurt the hobby , full stop!
Anyone who is a part of this , either SELLING Or WILFULLY
purchasing Counterfeit coins is a pariah in my mind.
Also in the eyes of the Hobby Protection ACT and the
US Secret Service you are committing criminal activity.
My advice to the original poster , if you truly care about our
great hobby stay away from those Morgan FAKES that are
Clearly NOT MARKED COPY .
Pillar of the Community
United States
2143 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not knowing much about counterfeits maybe this is a stupid question but is there a chance any have actual silver content? Seems like everyone believes they would be worth below scrap value so I assume no one thinks they are even bullion.


I thought they might be silver, but I don't believe one should but known fakes even if silver. If buying them to melt and giving the profits to charity I may almost be ok, but I don't think it's good to buy a known counterfeit
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
26925 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2020  09:39 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$0
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 27 / Views: 1,659Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2020 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.9 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05