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1944 S Cent, How Do You Determine A Chip Planchet From PMD "Hammer Job"?

 
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 Posted 05/23/2020  02:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SomeGoodCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Message



Okay I'll stop for the night. Don't want to clog up post with to many things at once!

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 Posted 05/23/2020  05:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Genuine clipped planchets generally have what is called a Blakesley Effect. This can be absent on large clips. A second thing to look for is fadeout or distortion in the design elements near the clip. Not sure if that is one or not.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  05:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
. Use search box,upper left of page for lots of info.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bit hard to say with the wear on this coin, but my suspicion leans towards clipped coin, not a clipped planchet.

Cannot see any sign of the Blakesley Effect on either side of the coin in this case.
The clip is sufficiently big enough for it to show up, if it was a clipped planchet.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  08:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@sgc, can you please also post a pic of the edge in this region of interest? Thx.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First,

The coin is neither a hammer job nor a clipped planchet. The coin appears to be a Chinese counterfeit.

First, the coin does not have coin orientation, and very nearly has medal orientation. The obverse shows the purported clip at 9:00-10:00. With coin orientation, the reverse should have the clip at 3:00-4:00. The reverse on this one shows the purported clip at 8:00-9:00.


Second the fours in the date are wrong. In the 1940s, all eleven fours in the dates are different, including each four in a 1944. A genuine 1944 cent has a pointed first four with a squared top and blunt second four with a rounded top, with SW-NE cambered end crossbars. The two fours align at the bottom of the crossbar. Your coin shows misaligned matching fours with squared crossbars.

Third, the purported obverse-reverse strike quality and wear are uneven.

Fourth, the color is way off, suggesting chemical treatment to age the surface.

The Chinese have counterfeited a staggering number of purported error coins, ranging from a comically wrong 1955 DDO, to an off-center 1955 DDO, to an off-center 1951-D, to several fake 1943 copper and 1944 steel cents, to an off-center 1937 Buffalo nickel. I believe this is another example of their persistence.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SomeGoodCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the feedback. Wow Fortcollins you get all that from two pic that's incredible! It's strange but I guess someone recognized it as such and tossed it back in to one of the 5,000 count bags I bought years ago. If I may ask Where did you acquire such knowledge? I read popular coin books and probably open them four or five time a day as I sell, Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, The Official ANA Grading Standards for United States Coin, Cherrypickers Guide 5th edition Vol. 1 and 2, and my latest addition is The RPM Book 2nd edition. Nothing much about orientation or differing numbers in dates found in these books. Please tell me, where do I study that kind of information?
Spence, I will get a Rim pic to you after I pack last nights eBay sales.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
First, the coin does not have coin orientation, and very nearly has medal orientation. The obverse shows the purported clip at 9:00-10:00. With coin orientation, the reverse should have the clip at 3:00-4:00. The reverse on this one shows the purported clip at 8:00-9:00.


Not sure I follow this, It should be the opposite of what you described, no?

If I pinch a coin at about 9-11 and flip it without moving my fingers, my other finger is at about 6-8. That's consistent with this coin.
Edited by Adam_E
05/23/2020 1:03 pm
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 Posted 05/23/2020  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's what I was thinking.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SomeGoodCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence,
Here are couple pics of Rim, sorry I don't have the best camera equipment!

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 Posted 05/23/2020  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Check Fuzzy317's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I moved your post to the appropriate section for the proper attention.

Please review the forum section descriptions, so posts are made in the correct section.

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 Posted 05/23/2020  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a straight clip. Note the edge is not even like it was cut, because it wasn't. The blank was cut over the edge of the stock material. I see weakness near the affected area of the devices. Weakness on the reverse showing the Blaksley affect there. I feel this is a genuine error coin. I'm surprised it took so long to be out there in circulation.
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