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Fake Chinese Morgan Dollars

 
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 Posted 06/29/2020  11:15 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add spdempsey to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I bought a set of these for fun -knowing they were fakes @ 6 bucks & free shipping!! Very crisp -looks struck, not molded -solid brass with electroplated silver, then aged of course. 1878-S -not even a key date!Photos to follow - I used a digital Jewelry scale to weigh, they came in just under a real Morgan. All had the same flaws - but only under extreme magnification,plus the reeding was off.Real coin is on the right for comparison

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 Posted 06/29/2020  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to Community.

Chinese wouldn't continue flooding the market with Fake US coins if they knew their fakes wouldn't sell.
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 Posted 06/29/2020  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, and thanks for sharing those images.



to the CCF!
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 Posted 06/29/2020  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF. I agree with Chase007. We all need to stop buying fakes, when we know they are fakes...demand and supply.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 06/29/2020  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Knowingly buying counterfeit coins from the source only enables and encourages the counterfeiters to keep doing it.

It's a vicious cycle as some of the counterfeits end up in the market place trying to be passed off as genuine coins.
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 Posted 06/29/2020  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.demand and supply.



Quote:
Knowingly buying counterfeit coins from the source only enables and encourages the counterfeiters


Precisely!

Quote:
Now let us address the newest threat to numismatics: Chinese counterfeits. For years these coins have trickled into the United States marketplace. Some were brought back by tourists visiting the Far East, and others showed up randomly at flea markets. Recently, this trickle has become a flood and created a real problem for the industry. Every week someone calls our offices with an accumulation of Chinese counterfeit coins.

Rare Coin Counterfeiting - Morgan DollarsSilver Dollars seem to be a favorite for the counterfeiters. This is probably because many na´ve buyers know that the coins they are buying might not be real, but that at least the coins are made of silver and have some intrinsic value. Big mistake! These coins are often made from some sort of base metal and have virtually no value. It probably occurs around the country many times everyday. People who should know better are lured into thinking they have found a bargain. Luckily, the vast majority of the Chinese counterfeits are somewhat crude and easily spotted by anyone with the most basic numismatic knowledge.

The proliferation of Chinese counterfeits can be attributed to several factors and developments. The Internet has made the distribution of these coins much easier than in the past. Until recently, eBay was a prime source and pipeline for the coins entering the country. Many of the larger counterfeit operations in China actually operated websites with dozens of issues for sale.Hundreds of thousands of fake rare coins are being sold in this country without the required "copy" or "replica" stamped on the coin.
That means thousands of people have bought fake rare coins and have lost their money buying what they thought were real, rare coins.

Buying coins, especially sight-unseen online, can be harmful to your wallet if you can't trust the source.


Do not contribute to the Counterfeit Coin market.A counterfeit or fake coin doesn't have any numismatic value though it's gold or silver can be extracted by assay. U.S. fakes are technically illegal to own.


Check out the link below:

https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/chi...ring-4071202

How Big Is The Counterfeiting Problem?


Quote:
By Jeff Garrett

For years, the numismatic industry has dealt effectively with the problem of counterfeit rare coins. Just to be clear, the issue of counterfeit coins has been around for a very long time. You can read numismatic journals from the 19th century and realize that collectors were dealing with the problem even then. One interesting case involved the extremely rare 1822 Half Eagle. An example was offered in the 1873 sale of the famous Parmelee Collection. The coin was sold and later returned after it was determined that the date had been altered. Several examples of the rare 1804 Bust Dollar that turned up in the late 1800s were also determined to be counterfeits. As long as collectors have been willing to pay a premium for rare coins, there have been unscrupulous individuals trying to take advantage of the unknowing.

In the late 1970s I was working for a large coin company in the Tampa Bay area. My primary job was to buy rare coins. I would travel to local shows, coin shops and just about anywhere coins could be found. This was a great experience for me and my knowledge of rare coins grew quickly from having the opportunity to handle so many coins. One day my boss asked me to make a buying roadtrip through several southern states. This was very exciting to me and I was on my way. I traveled with a friend stopping at every coin shop we could find in Tennessee, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida. I probably spent around $20,000 in two weeks. I was very proud of my new purchases and could not wait to show my boss how smart I was. I can still remember the shock and disappointment of finding out that most of the United States gold coins that had been purchased were counterfeit. Nearly all had been paid for in cash and returning them was not an option. It is often said that "hard learned" lessons are the best. In my case this was very true. I became determined to become an expert on counterfeit gold coins. In the 1970s and 1980s, counterfeit gold coins were very common. It was said that many of the coins originated in Lebanon. How anyone knew this is beyond me, but these coins still show up in coin shops around the country when an estate is brought in for appraisal. But now, most experienced dealers can determine if these coins are genuine or not.

Other than large quantities of counterfeit gold coins that were circulating in the 1970s, the biggest issue for most collectors has been encountering altered dates and mintmarks. These coins can be very deceptive as the workmanship on some of the coins is astounding. Thousands of fake 1932-D and 1932-S Quarters, 1916-D Dimes and 1909-S VDB Cents have been created over the years. Luckily, collectors do not have to rely on their eyesight to safely buy one of these coins. Third-party certification has virtually eliminated the risk of buying these coins. NGC knows all of the tell-tale signs for these counterfeits and has the proper equipment to determine if a coin is genuine. When people bring collections to my shop with any key date coins, they are told that the coins will need to be certified before I can make an offer. I explain to them that the coin must be certified before it is offered in the resale market, and that I will be able to make a much higher offer once certified by NGC. This usually does the trick and off they go.

The above paragraphs deal with the counterfeit rare coins that have been lingering about the rare coin market for years. Now let us address the newest threat to numismatics: Chinese counterfeits. For years these coins have trickled into the United States marketplace. Some were brought back by tourists visiting the Far East, and others showed up randomly at flea markets. Recently, this trickle has become a flood and created a real problem for the industry. Every week someone calls our offices with an accumulation of Chinese counterfeit coins. Silver Dollars seem to be a favorite for the counterfeiters. This is probably because many na´ve buyers know that the coins they are buying might not be real, but that at least the coins are made of silver and have some intrinsic value. Big mistake! These coins are often made from some sort of base metal and have virtually no value. I have seen this scenario play out dozens of times in my office alone. It probably occurs around the country many times everyday. People who should know better are lured into thinking they have found a bargain. Luckily, the vast majority of the Chinese counterfeits are somewhat crude and easily spotted by anyone with the most basic numismatic knowledge.

The proliferation of Chinese counterfeits can be attributed to several factors and developments. The Internet has made the distribution of these coins much easier than in the past. Until recently, eBay was a prime source and pipeline for the coins entering the country. Many of the larger counterfeit operations in China actually operated websites with dozens of issues for sale. The coins were shown with the word "COPY" stamped on each coin. When the coins were delivered, however, they lacked this required stamp. eBay has changed their rules and now do not permit any copies or counterfeits to be listed. This has been a tremendous help, and eBay is to be complimented on making these changes to protect the hobby.

I wish I could report that the changes eBay instituted has eliminated counterfeits in the marketplace. Unfortunately, this is not true. In addition to the above mentioned counterfeits, which are somewhat crude, there have been some well made copies seen in recent years. These are substantially superior than the mass produced Morgan silver dollars normally encountered. Many are of scarce or rare dates and the quality of workmanship is extraordinary. The coins become even more dangerous when mixed with genuine coins and sold or offered under less than suspicious circumstances. The Chinese counterfeiters have begun placing the coins in fake holders. The most commonly seen fakes are Silver Dollars. The counterfeiters seem to prefer PCGS holders. I was recently offered a PCGS MS 63 1893-S Silver Dollar by an Atlanta dealer. After much discussion, an offer was made for the coin. Unfortunately, the deal never materialized, as it was determined by the Atlanta dealer that the coin was a counterfeit. These fake Silver Dollars seem to be the biggest counterfeit problem facing numismatics at the moment. I know a few dealers that have been trapped by these devious fakes.

Let me summarize the most common types of counterfeits a collector or dealer might encounter:

Counterfeit Gold Coins
Usually seen when an old collection from the 1960s or 1970s is sold. Most of these are made of gold, but the metal content is uncertain.

Altered Dates And Added Mintmarks
These are very common on 1909-S VDB Cents and 1916-D Dimes. Any uncertified coin should be suspect. Other frequently seen issues include 1932-D and S Washington quarters, and 1914-D Cents.

Replicas
In the past, many Colonial and Territorial issues were struck as copies. Common issues include Continental Dollars and Blake and Company Double Eagles. Some have the word COPY stamped on the coins, but others do not. Most are of very poor quality and should not cause trouble for anyone with even modest experience.

Chinese Counterfeits
These have been a rampant problem and caution should be used when buying any uncertified coin. If the circumstances seem unusual (the coin is way too cheap), have the certification verified. NGC has a great tool for this on their website.
The government knows they cannot arrest everyone in China or even the shady individuals in the United States selling them. They can, however, make high profile arrests and attempt to punish those involved to the fullest extent of the law. At least in the future, the bad guys know there might be serious consequences for their actions.

In general, the counterfeit coin problem is real and a danger to our hobby.

Jeff Garrett bio


Edited by Chase007
06/29/2020 2:59 pm
Valued Member
United States
412 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2020  2:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wideglide to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This problem is bad enough on eBay, I can't even imagine what is on Etsy...
"Did you exchange a walk-on part in the war, for a lead role in a cage?" R.W. 1975

Mark from the metropolis of Portage, PA
A.N.A. #3206350
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 Posted 06/29/2020  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spdempsey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My plan is to engrave COPY on both sides & use as a teaching tool - - I know Jewelers who purchase coins & rally know nothing about them - - & you know they possess a high quality scale, mine cost $20 - Is forging common dates a new thing? All I have ever read are key dates & mints.And how can sites on Facebook etc. sell forgeries with no consequences? And be sent via USPS?
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 Posted 06/29/2020  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is forging common dates a new thing? All I have ever read are key dates & mints.

Elsewhere on this board are threads showing counterfeit 2004 Jefferson nickels, Kennedy halves, and 1986 commemoratives. Anything can and will be faked if someone can make a profit.


Quote:
And how can sites on Facebook etc. sell forgeries with no consequences? And be sent via USPS?

USPS doesn't routinely inspect packages for counterfeits, and Facebook/Etsy/etc. don't seem to care (reports of counterfeit items go right in the trash, as far as we can tell here). Even eBay doesn't respond to a lot of reports unless you go through the right channels. Illegal? Sure. But that doesn't mean every occurrence will be dealt with, just like a lot of other crimes.
Working on: Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens; upgrading my Peace dollar and US Type sets

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
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 Posted 06/30/2020  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
s forging common dates a new thing?

Not really it's been around for a long time and the common dates are easier to sell without raising suspicion of those with little numismatic knowledge.
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 Posted 07/02/2020  01:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spdempsey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I took 2 real Morgans & one fake to 3 places, a Jeweler, An antique dealer U a Pawn shop - they had a random 1 in 3 chance
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 Posted 07/02/2020  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spdempsey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All 3 failed - even with a scale ( one gram under)
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 Posted 07/02/2020  01:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spdempsey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I even submitted one with the silver coating polished off to reveal the brass!! I will deface the remaining 4 coins I have. For educational purposes only!!
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 Posted 07/02/2020  05:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If those places are so easily fooled, then no wonder there is a market for them.
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 Posted 07/02/2020  08:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Chinese counterfeiters thank you for supporting their efforts.
Gary Schmidt
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