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1939 1 Cent, Different Size Date, Die Wear?

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Canada
601 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2020  11:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just got my new microscope set up and ive been testing out all the settings and while doing so I was looking at some older George VI cents and noticed that the date for this 1939 is a lot thicker than what the date should be.

At first I thought circulation wear but you can see that the devices are the same height for both coins, and the devices themselves are actually fairly thick and the buds are also different sizes. I am thinking maybe die wear, but not 100% sure.

Coin in Question.



Normal 1939 date.

They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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United States
34235 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  06:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks pretty much the same to me. Nice photos,what are you using?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
48838 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  07:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They appear the same to me as well.
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7986 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Top coin is more worn
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Pillar of the Community
Canada
601 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Nice photos,what are you using?


Thank you John1, I am using a 38MP 2K Industrial Microscope camera with a 100x Lens and LED ring light. The copy stand itself I made with 3D printed parts. I can do close ups and Full coin photos.

My new setup.






And here is a side by side of the date all in 1 photo just to show the thickness difference of the top date compared to the bottom so you's can see what I am seeing more clearly.


They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1817 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wow john excellent great find. here is and image to show you what you have. its a wide date nice find. I have grid complete now. this will make things a lot easier. here is your image. john I was trying. to hand hold to take this photo.
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Canada
4541 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So in 1939 there was over 20 million cents produced and say a die last 200,000 strikes, you need around 100 pair of dies, the RCM is not creating exact copies or ms 65 of each coin, more like ms 63 and below. Even if this is a wide 9 variety, how many collectors care, I hope I'm not being too harsh, but your photo skills are terrific !
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Canada
601 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I hope I'm not being too harsh, but your photo skills are terrific !


John100, thank you and you weren't being harsh at all so no worries, your information was exactly what I was looking for.

Like I said earlier, I was just messing around with my new setup and I never noticed the differences for this 1939 before until now and I was curious if it was something regarding the dies being different or just simple circulation wear.

I've never heard of a "wide 9" variety before, but that is probably due to exactly like you said, how many collectors actually care as I would assume it would be classified as a minor variety.

They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Bedrock of the Community
United States
34235 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would you mind telling us what that scope cost?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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Canada
601 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Would you mind telling us what that scope cost?


John1, the camera, lens and LED ring light with all the power adapters, HDMI Cable and the Remote control cost me $160.00 Canadian with free Shipping included! (no border fees and got handed over to Canada post as expedited with tracking).

I originally gave myself a $300.00 CAD budget to get a decent camera and copy stand, but looking at copy stands online pretty much took up my entire budget so I designed my own copy stand and purchased the steel rods, bearings and a Stepper Rod for $70.00 CAD and 3D Printed the plastic parts and the Arm that holds the camera and I managed to turn my original $300.00 budget into a $250.00 budget.

The camera itself I am very pleased with as it has HDMI that takes photos on a memory card at 2K resolution hooked up to an external monitor and USB capabilities (what the pics for this post were taken with) at 1080P HD on my Macbook.

Overall best purchase I've made and shows doubled dies beautifully, I can also do full coin photos that are very similar to true views with extreme zooming to pick at any detail you see on a coin.
They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1817 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2020  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
john so this is a big 9 small 9. wide date narrow date. I sure would like to see the full obverses of these coins.
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34235 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2020  05:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for telling us the price. Great set up and great photos.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
3000 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2020  05:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really see no difference between the two. The difference that I see on the graph paper is the lighting/outline of the digits themselves. I see no wide or thick 9's. I would imagine that all the working dies were struck from the same hub, so there can be no differences in size or spacing. I don't know if there was a reason for them to handpunch the last digit into the working dies like they did for some Vicky large cents. If that were so, then there would be many more differences in spacings or vertical placement of the 9.
Edited by okiecoiner
07/02/2020 1:23 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
601 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2020  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okiecoiner, I'm not big on using graphs and all that, but there really is a difference in size even if it is only minor.

Here is a photo of both the "Thick 9" and "Thin 9"




I really didn't want to have to mark up these photos like this but just for better understanding of what I am seeing you can clearly see a difference in the following photos.






The over all size of the "Thick 9" is also bigger, all the photos were taken from the exact same distance. If those aren't convincing enough you should see the "thick 3" compared to the "thin 3", there is also a good spacing difference between each digit.
They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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Canada
9141 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2020  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you show the whole obverse and reverse? Are they of similar grades? Remember that the numbers have angled edges, the more the coin wears, the fatter they get...
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4541 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2020  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are looking for different 9, look at the 1969 large date nine, there is a huge or different nine used so I guess the huge price this coin gets at auctions. This could be just natural die wear, the way different pressman polished a die or set the pressure. Although I have no love for the 1969 large date, and a reasonable explanation for it's creation, the market talks. My other guess is if you look minutely at any regular circulating coin you will find all kinds of minor variety, if you can't notice a defect or difference naturally it's hard to have a big following.
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