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Anyone Collecting Dutch / Nl Coins, Or Need Assist?

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New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2020  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ff4266 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have some guldens ranging from willem the 3rd and Wilhelmina so I could help you out on that if you want..
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dieuwer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is the exact translation from the Dutch coin grading scale to the American grading scale?

Something like:

fr = VF20
zfr = VF30
pr = XF40

?
Edited by Dieuwer
10/19/2020 3:04 pm
Valued Member
Canada
64 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BCTokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am also a long time, but not extremely serious collector of Netherlands coins. The not serious is partly due to the lack of availability where I live.

As I understand the grading scale:

Pr. (Prachtig) = XF
Z.F. (Zeer Fraai) = VF
Fr. (Fraai) = F
Z.G. (Zeer Goed) = VG
G. (Goed) = G

Jan
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dieuwer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am asking because I have seen numerous coins on Dutch coin sellers' websites that rate their coins say "Pr" while to me they barely seem VF. Do the Dutch tend to overgrade their coins?
Also, most of the coins I have seen appear to be thoroughly cleaned. Like they went in some sort of caustic silver polish bath.
Valued Member
Canada
64 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BCTokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wish I knew more about Dutch grading standards. My only resources are very old catalogues (ca 1980) which just give a verbal description for the grades. Essentially, the more wear, the lower the grade.

I certainly have seen coins such as you described. Still, in an earlier thread about grading, I posted the following coin from a major Dutch auction house about 2 years ago which was graded Z.F.:




It looks better than that, but I now see that it has been harshly cleaned so perhaps that downgraded it.

I hope that the O/P can comment on current grading standards.

Jan
New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ff4266 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay here goes, by the way that is a pretty rare coin you have there. It is called a "Rijksdaalder" or "Daalder of the Kingdom" translated freely. Daalder is the word "Dollar" originates from. In general, gulden coins from Willem the first, second and third are rare.

So, the American grading standards are more extensive than the Dutch, but to give you a quick view:

Goed (G) > G-4
Zeer goed (ZG) > G-8
Fraai (Fr) > F-12
Zeer Fraai (Zf) > VF-20
Prachtig (Pr) > XF-40
Fleur de Coin (Fdc) > MS

As you can see, there are no ranges used in for example MS state. That is why a lot of collectors in NL will get their coins graded by NGC or PCGS, to get the exact grade. But dealers and sellers very few use the specific grades.

And to conclude this message, here are some of my Gulden coins. That 1943 Rijksdaalder has a "D" on it. During the war, gulden coins were minted in the US, Denver and Philly to be specific. Hence the less sharp strikes, the Dutch mint did a much better job in those days:












Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  5:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dieuwer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are no AU grades in Dutch? How would they grade an e.g. AU55 coin?
New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ff4266 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That would be Pr+

While coin collecting becomes easier available internationally through internet, more and more stores and Dutch forums are using the grading scale from the US. I for one, am a collector of US half dollars, which are not commonly available here so I order a lot through Ebay from the US..
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dieuwer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess I am mostly focussing on "Prachtig" coins then, as I feel tbat Mint State coins look "to good to be true" (and more like Chinese knock offs).

Any reply to my comment that it seems that Dutch coin sellers like to offer "bleached" coins?
Edited by Dieuwer
10/19/2020 5:57 pm
New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ff4266 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Watch out for fakes indeed, not the 1 gulden(to small and cheap to make fakes) but the 2,5 gulden sometimes, and even more, the gold 10 gulden. Those have been faked a LOT, especially the 1897(Wilhelmina with long hair), sometimes in 14kt gold.
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dieuwer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good point. I read that Rijksdaalders are the most faked?
I like collecting 1 Gulden coins because they are the unit-of-account and are neither too small nor too big for my taste.
Edited by Dieuwer
10/19/2020 6:03 pm
New Member
Netherlands
23 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2020  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ff4266 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1840, 1863 and 1898 are commonly faked.

For 1 gulden the common faked years are: 1847, 1896 and 1929. Chinese junk..
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2020  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dieuwer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an overview of the gulden type set I have collected so far.
For some reason, the coins on the photos look much worse than they are in reality. Not sure what light and settings on my phone I should use.







...same one but photographed through plastic holder:



Also, the "laatste gulden" does NOT have an edge nick. It probably is a piece of black foam protruding.
Edited by Dieuwer
10/23/2020 6:10 pm
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United States
3983 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2020  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am curious if any of the contributors here from Netherlands know the auction house Corinphila. I recently participated (electronically) in an auction where they were selling a collection of mostly medieval Brabant coins. Hammer prices generally seemed rather high (I only managed to win one coin by opening my wallet a bit wider than I had hoped), but maybe this was a well-known collection, and I am finding that prices of high quality world coins are generally quite high everywhere..
Edited by tdziemia
10/23/2020 9:07 pm
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2020  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dieuwer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Moved...
Edited by Dieuwer
11/10/2020 5:42 pm
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