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1805 (4 Berries) Draped Bust Dime

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 Posted 08/14/2020  12:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
What are your thoughts on this coin's condition and gradability? I rarely see such sharp detail on Draped Bust coins!



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 Posted 08/14/2020  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First thought: terrific coin!
Detail looks mint state, with the softly-defined areas likely due to striking issues. I don't see any hairline scratches. The blotchy toning and slightly glossy areas (like the eagle's head and the clouds) could be evidence of cleaning.
Could grade MS-62 if straight-graded; otherwise I'd opine "MS detail, cleaned."
Either way, a coin to treasure!
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 Posted 08/14/2020  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Jaobler! This coin is in a straight graded NGC holder--and for the sake of consistency in my PCGS type collection, I want to eventually send it to PCGS with a stipulation that as long as it straight grades, even if a little lower, they can crack it out and reslab it. Do you think the NGC straight grade (which may be a bit of an unofficial net grade) would help increase the chances PCGS straight grades it? I recently sent a family memeber's old coin collection (from the 1950s!) in to PCGS for certification and slabbing--and I was amazed how many Draped Bust coins ( half dimes and quarters) that seemed pretty obviously cleaned at some point were straight graded--and how the few that were "details" graded for cleaning, had the same beautiful album toning and lack of hairlines as the straight graders. I guess I am saying that I really don't know where the line is and would love to see which side of that line this beautiful dime would fall on.
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 Posted 08/15/2020  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it currently has a straight grade I don't think I'd crack it. The risk of getting a details slab from PCGS must be considered. A crossover submission is an option but I don't think PCGS is likely to give it a higher grade.
If you think it's under graded it might be worth getting a reconsideration from NGC. Or, maybe you could score a gold bean from CAC.
Again, it's a lovely piece as is.
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 Posted 08/15/2020  12:07 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure, but I love it. DB coins are tough to find well struck, especially the smaller size ones like the dime and half dime.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
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 Posted 08/15/2020  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again, Jaobler. I certainly won't crack it. If I send it to PCGS the stipulation will be "only crack it out IF it straight grades," which I just learned I can do, so the worst case scenario is that it comes back in its original NGC straight grade slab. I prefer the PCGS slab for continuity in my type collection (it is my only dime that is in an NGC holder, not a PCGS one). If PCGS gives it a straight AU(55) or higher I would be happy. I will give the grade tomorrow, in case anyone else wants to guess tonight.

I really appreciate your feedback here. Thanks so much for your thoughtful comments.
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 Posted 08/15/2020  01:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks great. If it were me I wouldn't bother with a PCGS holder. I think it may be struck from worn dies that may give an appearance of cleaning.
Edited by jimbucks
08/15/2020 01:17 am
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 Posted 08/15/2020  02:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fantastic coin, nice luster and just a trace of wear. I'd say AU-58. I don't see any sign of a past cleaning, but if you send it to PCGS for a crossover, I would definitely stipulate that it needs to straight grade as you noted.
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 Posted 08/15/2020  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 08/15/2020  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i have a 4 berry in FR2 and was happy with that. this is an exceptional early piece. AU58
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 Posted 08/15/2020  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it crosses over as AU(58) then I would be really happy--AU(55) I would be satisfied. If it crosses over at MS(62) I would be on the moon. AU(50-53) I don't imagine as possibilities, as the wear on this, if it is even wear and not weakness in the strike, is significantly and visibly less than AU(50-53) examples I see online. Thanks so much for your feedback--the stipulation of straight grading will be very clear when I eventually get to this. My next goal is to get a decently priced and well struct AU(50) Draped Bust half dollar from 1806.

Edited by Adam590
08/15/2020 12:14 pm
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 Posted 08/15/2020  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnjkedel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice !!
I collect both labels. I would be So happy to have it in either holder.
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 Posted 08/15/2020  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Check Paul Bulgerin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Paul Bulgerin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a beautiful coin!

I once owned an AG-3 1805 and was thrilled with it. I can't imagine what's it like to have one in this condition!

Thanks for sharing it with us.
Paul Bulgerin
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 Posted 10/12/2020  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all of your opinions. I really like this coin, and as I am sure you all can believe, it looks even better in person. It looks more "metallic" and less "glossy."

I am sad to report that PCGS decided not to cross it over. My stipulation was AU(55) or higher. I still love the coin, and it will still represent Draped Bust dimes as THE type coin in my collection. I am sorry that PCGS didn't appreciate it as much as many of us do. I wonder if the scratch going against the lines of her hair to the right of the bow was a deal breaker (it shouldn't be, though, right?), or if they thought it was cleaned. I am guessing the only way they wouldn't cross this over at AU(55) or higher would be if they didn't think it should straight grade at all.

The coin remains in its NGC Holder, marking it as AU(58). When I return to USA in December I will be happy to welcome it back into my collection.
Edited by Adam590
10/12/2020 11:06 am
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 Posted 10/12/2020  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't imagine that small scratch would have detailed it. They must have thought previously cleaned, because this shouldn't be less than a 55. It's too bad, but you still have a gorgeous type coin in a straight graded 58 holder.
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 Posted 10/12/2020  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this is just a beautiful piece of history that any collector would love to place in their collection. I wasnt surprised with PCGS's response. from what I've seen they have been very loose in handing out details holders. i'd rather have a nice AU58 than a crappy looking MS62 any day. keep it in the NGC holder and enjoy it for years.
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