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1923-S LWC, Is This A "Mule"? Mis-Matched Dies? Normal Obverse, Waffled Rev

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 Posted 10/15/2020  8:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This coin doesn't appear to have any damage on the obverse, that's what makes me think this isn't post mint damage. Also there is no evidence of the reverse design under a microscope as if we're damaged later. The weight also appears to be within range, I've added the weight of another 1923-S for comparison.
As always, thank you for your time and comments.








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 Posted 10/15/2020  9:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me, this looks like deliberate damage. PMD.
Edited by Coinfrog
10/16/2020 5:00 pm
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 Posted 10/15/2020  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Really? Wow. I thought one of the mints waffle dies got mismatched with a regular die.
That's why I brought it to the Experts here!
Thank you Coinfrog!
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 Posted 10/15/2020  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an odd one though.
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 Posted 10/15/2020  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the mint "waffled" this cent, it would I believe appear differently (another row of waffles?), but if it was mint waffled, it would be worth LESS than a cent as it would be canceled. Since the waffling appears different than the mint would create, I agree with Coinfrog, this is just deliberate post mint damage.

I'm not sure how you would say the obverse is without damage when fingerprints are very visible and it appears to have had heavy wear. Without the damage on the reverse, based on the obverse, this cent would not grade very high, in my opinion.


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 Posted 10/15/2020  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the obverse, I just meant no visible signs of damage in the form of being smashed or pressed looking, or bent, as I would expect if someone laid it flat and smashed the impression into the reverse, or it was squeezed in a vice. It obviously has nearly a 100 years of wear damage on it, both sides.
I will continue the hunt.
I sincerely thank you all for taking the time to look and comment so I may learn!
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 Posted 10/16/2020  01:35 am  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's possible it is a post-strike delamination, but I would expect some of the reverse design to show through, even if just a tiny bit. The ridges are fairly regular, as well, leading me to believe that it was intentionally tooled/machined. Maybe someone started to make a Magician's coin and gave up.
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 Posted 10/16/2020  04:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not think the mint even waffled coins way back then. It looks like some kind of PMD. Maybe Mike would like to see it?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 10/16/2020  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like to me it is a split planchet post strike split off. As mention the obverse is not flatten or damaged. Just a thin layer peeled off the coin. Note how the groved area is not spliting out on the edge. If this were altered, the edge would show the same depth as the deep grooves on the reverse. Nice find.
Split planchets have that look to them:





Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 10/16/2020  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert, but isn't that pattern awfully regular for a split planchet?
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 Posted 10/17/2020  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Note how the edge is not as deep as the trenches? If it was done by machine, then that would not rise near the edge. The compression of the strike on the edge must have prevented this area from not being as shallow as the center as the coin. Also if it were machined, it would be smooth. Not showing pock marks in the affected areas.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
10/17/2020 2:00 pm
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 Posted 10/17/2020  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is no way this is a split planchet. This was done by grinding. Hence the lite weight. It's to perfect to be a random split. There would be some of the design left ether pre strike or after strike. And as far as one side being left, it wasn't held square to grinder.
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 Posted 10/17/2020  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems illogical to me, but I don't argue with coop.
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 Posted 10/17/2020  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Where is Mike
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 10/18/2020  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've sent this coin to Mike for his analysis, will post results when I hear back from him.
Pictures are very hard to review, so an in hand exam by Mike I felt was warranted.
I truly appreciate everyone's input!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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 Posted 10/18/2020  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very much looking forward to the reply.
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