Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1923-S LWC, Is This A "Mule"? Mis-Matched Dies? Normal Obverse, Waffled Rev

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 20 / Views: 3,297Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
Snoopydoo's Avatar
United States
443 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2020  8:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin doesn't appear to have any damage on the obverse, that's what makes me think this isn't post mint damage. Also there is no evidence of the reverse design under a microscope as if we're damaged later. The weight also appears to be within range, I've added the weight of another 1923-S for comparison.
As always, thank you for your time and comments.

1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2020  9:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me, this looks like deliberate damage. PMD.
Edited by Coinfrog
10/16/2020 5:00 pm
Valued Member
Snoopydoo's Avatar
United States
443 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2020  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Really? Wow. I thought one of the mints waffle dies got mismatched with a regular die.
That's why I brought it to the Experts here!
Thank you Coinfrog!
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34418 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2020  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an odd one though.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Bedrock of the Community
merclover's Avatar
United States
10635 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2020  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the mint "waffled" this cent, it would I believe appear differently (another row of waffles?), but if it was mint waffled, it would be worth LESS than a cent as it would be canceled. Since the waffling appears different than the mint would create, I agree with Coinfrog, this is just deliberate post mint damage.

I'm not sure how you would say the obverse is without damage when fingerprints are very visible and it appears to have had heavy wear. Without the damage on the reverse, based on the obverse, this cent would not grade very high, in my opinion.


Valued Member
Snoopydoo's Avatar
United States
443 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2020  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the obverse, I just meant no visible signs of damage in the form of being smashed or pressed looking, or bent, as I would expect if someone laid it flat and smashed the impression into the reverse, or it was squeezed in a vice. It obviously has nearly a 100 years of wear damage on it, both sides.
I will continue the hunt.
I sincerely thank you all for taking the time to look and comment so I may learn!
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
spru's Avatar
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2020  01:35 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's possible it is a post-strike delamination, but I would expect some of the reverse design to show through, even if just a tiny bit. The ridges are fairly regular, as well, leading me to believe that it was intentionally tooled/machined. Maybe someone started to make a Magician's coin and gave up.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Moderator
Learn More...
John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2020  04:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not think the mint even waffled coins way back then. It looks like some kind of PMD. Maybe Mike would like to see it?
John1
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2020  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like to me it is a split planchet post strike split off. As mention the obverse is not flatten or damaged. Just a thin layer peeled off the coin. Note how the groved area is not spliting out on the edge. If this were altered, the edge would show the same depth as the deep grooves on the reverse. Nice find.
Split planchets have that look to them:
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2020  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert, but isn't that pattern awfully regular for a split planchet?
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
Note how the edge is not as deep as the trenches? If it was done by machine, then that would not rise near the edge. The compression of the strike on the edge must have prevented this area from not being as shallow as the center as the coin. Also if it were machined, it would be smooth. Not showing pock marks in the affected areas.
1923-S-LWC,-Is-This-A-
Edited by coop
10/17/2020 2:00 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Cujohn's Avatar
United States
7174 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is no way this is a split planchet. This was done by grinding. Hence the lite weight. It's to perfect to be a random split. There would be some of the design left ether pre strike or after strike. And as far as one side being left, it wasn't held square to grinder.
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems illogical to me, but I don't argue with coop.
Moderator
Learn More...
John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2020  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Where is Mike
John1
Valued Member
Snoopydoo's Avatar
United States
443 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2020  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Snoopydoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've sent this coin to Mike for his analysis, will post results when I hear back from him.
Pictures are very hard to review, so an in hand exam by Mike I felt was warranted.
I truly appreciate everyone's input!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2020  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very much looking forward to the reply.
  Previous TopicReplies: 20 / Views: 3,297Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.35 seconds to rattle this change. Forums