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Is This 1799 Dollar Authentic?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
598 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2021  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There are still lots of high-priced coins out there that aren't slabbed. Perhaps it was once slabbed as a details coin for cleaning, and the owner preferred it raw.


Actually, that is a typical shady eBay sellers trick: crack out a Details coin and pass it off as a problem-free raw coin.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17230 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm not sure. It looks like it *might* be a B-17 but I'm no expert on these

Not a B-17, looks like B-8, and I think genuine.
Gary Schmidt
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United States
6977 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not a professional on these for sure, but here is a great site for them. I have used it to tell fakes before when attributes do not show up:
http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddate3.htm
The slabbed Half dollar No G farce: Download No-FG half vs. Grading Company Claims report here:
https://tinyurl.com/yalrstjz or higher resolution version: https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Edited by Earle42
01/27/2021 5:40 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
598 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not a professional on these for sure, but here is a great site for them. I have used it to tell fakes before when attributes do not show up:
http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddate3.htm


Using that site, then I think this coin is a fake.
Have a look at the position of the last two 9s in authentic coins: http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddata.asp?ID=109
The 9s are either closer to the drapery than the bottom rim, or are half way between the drapery and the bottom rime.
The 9s in the eBay coin however are almost on top of the bottom rim.
Additionally, the bottom of the L in "LIBERTY" has a shank, while for a real coin it is straight. In fact, every letter in the eBay coin is overly gothic.
Edited by NumisEd
01/27/2021 6:35 pm
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2819 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@NumisEd, there are 22 die pairs for the 1799 bust dollars. This one has a regular date, but the date position varies depending on the obverse die used. Here is a comparison of the eBay coin (on top) and a genuine 1799 variety B-8 from NGC. The forking at the base of the letters and the trailing of the stars toward the rims is a result of a deteriorating die.



Pillar of the Community
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598 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
...unless the NGC coin is also a fake.
Anyhow, I would NEVER buy a raw coin like this one on eBay.
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United States
426 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it may well be a fake.

The 'so-called die cracks look more like casting lines on the stars leading to the edge. they are all too uniform and regular to be random die cracks.

Look at the Liberty at the coins top. The horizontal bar of the 'B' 'E' 'R' and 'T' is weak like it was worn out but the accents of these letters is strong and barely worn out.

Seeing the wear patterns on the forehead, Cheek, Nose, Shoulder, and Breast is the ONLY places I see wear and what is missing are scratches you would find on a coid that has this much wear.

I found an almost identical coin on the ETSY site. more worn than this one, it shows scratches, and dings. And the stars and cross bars on the lettering look more to what I would expect to see on a circulated coin of this age.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/922485...968cfa1abf0d


Just MHO

Edited for bad spelling and overall terrible typing skills.
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin
Edited by Dearborn
01/27/2021 9:00 pm
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United States
54774 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Starting to get over my head. Just interested in learning now.
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United States
2819 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a subtle die crack through LIB on the obverse, and through ES on the reverse, consistent with a B-8 die marriage. The lines running from the stars to the rim aren't die cracks, they are metal flow lines from Die Deterioration. Here is a graded bust dollar with similar flow lines from a late state die. There's no way to guarantee authenticity from photos alone, but I don't see anything that would indicate a fake.



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