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What Is Going On With This 1988-D Roosevelt Dime?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 251Next Topic  
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United States
22 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2021  9:51 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Arnbrhm to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I wasn't even hunting for this. I got it in some change. My guesses are PMD or some sort of delamination? Anyone care to chime in? Thanks!


Pillar of the Community
United States
4868 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2021  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That actually looks like a partially missing clad layer. The clear lack of cladding, sharp details near the break, and low pressure in the middle are all promising signs.

I look forward to hearing from the experts.
Valued Member
United States
240 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2021  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice find! also the filled die reverse with what looks like a cud. And I am just guessing that on the obverse, part of the layer split off after strike. I want to know more Too!
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 Posted 05/04/2021  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MisterT, the reverse looks like that since the planchet was too thin there to achieve the striking pressure necessary. Another good reason to think the clad layer split off after rolling but before striking.
On further examination, it looks like another section (7:00-8:00) is on the verge of separating too.

Arnbrhm, can you tell us the weight?

Wonderful find.
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United States
240 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2021  10:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numisma, thank you for your explanation. While I understand the minting process fairly well, I often have a difficult time sleuthing what may have caused such things. So the missing part of the layer had split before strike since an after strike would have left a striated surface? What about the filled die reverse and cud? Any possibility the missing layer could have been struck in there?
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 Posted 05/04/2021  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So the missing part of the layer had split before strike since an after strike would have left a striated surface?

Bingo. If it split after strike, the reverse would look normal and the obverse portion would be striated and otherwise featureless. You can tell the copper was the surface exposed to the die since the design elements are struck on it.


Quote:
What about the filled die reverse and cud? Any possibility the missing layer could have been struck in there?


There's no fill or cud. Since that part of the clad layer was missing, the planchet is thinner in that area. That means there's less metal available to fill the die, i.e. the pressure is low, so the devices don't get struck up. It's basically the same reason that the side opposite a large cud is weakly struck; the pressure is too low there since the same amount of metal is trying to fill a much larger space between the dies.
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 Posted 05/05/2021  12:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
upon first glance I thought the clad layer was removed due to PMD, but with Numisma pointing out the reverse (I swiped right past it) make me agree it's a true mint error...nice find
I'm by no means a pro and will never claim to be...just my 2 cents
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Valued Member
United States
240 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2021  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numisma, thank you for the explanation and education. I would have totally mislabeled that reverse as filled die and a cud.
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 Posted 05/05/2021  02:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're very welcome! I like a good spatial reasoning puzzle.
New Member
United States
22 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2021  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arnbrhm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Numisma, the weight came out to 2.213g
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United States
50764 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2021  10:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another clue that it was a pre-strike issue is that the motto devices are are the same size, (On both areas) not reduced or like a ghost image. So this was a defective planchet issue.
Note on the quarter below, you can see the same thing. The full strike on all devices, whether clad or missing clad. On a peeling clad the devices are not the same strength.


CoopHome: How can you tell on a clad coin if the clad was missing before or after the strike?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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United States
50764 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2021  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To the left of the motto, it appears the cladding is struck on to that area, still attached. So possibly this coin will be normal in weight, or close to normal? Interesting.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
05/05/2021 10:43 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 05/05/2021  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the explanation, Coop!


Quote:
To the left of the motto, it appears the cladding is struck on to that area, still attached. So possibly this coin will be normal in weight? Interesting.


Good call. That seems more likely than partially detached cladding in that area. The weight Arnbrhm gave seems consistent with that.
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United States
50764 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2021  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At first glance it looked like glue, but you can usually see through glue.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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