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Attn CCF Members: Anyone Who Has Sold Coins To Mikesmountianvalues Pls Read

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8753 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2021  2:48 pm Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
After going back and forth with NGC for a few months, they have agreed to consider an investigation into his 'alleged' alterations; however, their action rides on definitive proof of his alterations. Anyone who has before and after photos, and proof of sale to him, please, please, please either PM it to me, or post it here. NGC has been ignoring him, so if they are willing to even entertain taking action it's a good sign. Thank you.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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59409 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2021  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A noble cause, long overdue. Good luck.
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 Posted 05/20/2021  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm guessing you are talking about questionable color?
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 Posted 05/20/2021  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rothery to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just in case there is anybody out there that doesn't know about MMV's magically toned coins...
https://www.ebay.com/str/mikesmountainvalues
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 Posted 05/20/2021  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Never dealt with the guy. I see a steep uphill battle ahead.

Good luck!
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 Posted 05/20/2021  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@keith, he's a very well known coin doctor. He purchases coins from other sellers and then either artificially tones them and sells them raw, or gets them encapsulated by NGC, who then straight grades them, even though they are obviously artificially toned
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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 Posted 05/20/2021  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that I looked. I think it maybe all in the lighting The coins on NGCs Site in the slabs dont look that color
Edited by keith12
05/20/2021 3:49 pm
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 Posted 05/20/2021  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bet NGC is in a pickle. If MMV is a large volume dealer, NGC doesn't want to cut him off and send him straight into the arms of PCGS. After all, it is all about $$$.
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 Posted 05/20/2021  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
or gets them encapsulated by NGC, who then straight grades them, even though they are obviously artificially toned
Then I put that on NGC.
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 Posted 05/20/2021  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add southsav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So much for having confidence in a major TPG . I don't have any knowledge or experience with toned coins. thanks for the info. And look at his feedback.

Another fine example of lack of integrity!
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 Posted 05/20/2021  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And look at his feedback


A Fool (or educated buyer) and His Money Are Soon Parted.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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4564 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2021  5:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure if NGC would care about raw coins he'd doctored but I sold him this IHC on March 11th: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224381427936

And March 28th this IHC was sold by him: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174697412310

I'm fairly certain they're the same coin, but it's hard to tell as some things are hidden in my photos and vise-versa. Key similarities I saw are:

The rim fin on the obverse, as well as the folded spots above the S and T in States and above the D in United.

The Rim Bump at 7 o-clock

The hit on the tip of the 4th from left headdress feather

And then on the reverse:

The hit on the E of Cent

The hit on the O of One is also visible, but much less so

The Rim bump at directly 12 o-clock

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 Posted 05/20/2021  5:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC is to be blamed just as much as MMV, if not more so.IMHO.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 05/20/2021  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Check spruett001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spruett001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My thoughts:


Quote:
encapsulated by NGC, who then straight grades them, even though they are obviously artificially toned

Must not be that obvious then...

Quote:
. I think it maybe all in the lighting The coins on NGCs Site in the slabs dont look that color

Though it may not explain everything, I agree with this. I made a couple comparisons with NGCs pics on the left and the seller's pics on the right. The photography and/or photo editing is clearly changing appearances:



Quote:
Then I put that on NGC.


Quote:
NGC is to be blamed just as much as MMV, if not more so.IMHO.

with this the most.

Finally, unless the differences in "natural" and "artificial" toning can be clearly delineated, this endeavor is probably for naught.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020

Oh that I was where I would be,
Then I would be where I am not,
Here I am where I must be,
Go where I would, I can not.
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3953 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2021  6:47 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have dealt with Thomas for a few years . Very quick to pay and absolutely
ZERO issues with him at all!
I think , that it would probably be best to stay out of an issue
that could well end up in a lawsuit if one is not careful .
Personally I could give a dead petunia what he does with the coins
after he buys them from me.
As to NGC , PCGS and the other grading services certifying
his or others coins with a similar look ,
they must deem them market acceptable .
There is no such thing as Artificial or natural toning in the
TPG orbit , only MARKET ACCEPTABLE TONING .
The look that you see in Mikes copper and bronze coins is
seen at many different dealer tables at any coin show .
Edited by Pacificoin
05/20/2021 6:52 pm
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 Posted 05/20/2021  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unless there's definite evidences, this likely aren't going anywhere, I look at NGC conserve coins the same way, NGC can turn a dark brown Indian cent and turn it into Red Brown.

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