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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,650 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8938 Posts |
After going back and forth with NGC for a few months, they have agreed to consider an investigation into his 'alleged' alterations; however, their action rides on definitive proof of his alterations. Anyone who has before and after photos, and proof of sale to him, please, please, please either PM it to me, or post it here. NGC has been ignoring him, so if they are willing to even entertain taking action it's a good sign. Thank you.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
A noble cause, long overdue. Good luck.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6529 Posts |
I'm guessing you are talking about questionable color?
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Pillar of the Community
2145 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7618 Posts |
Never dealt with the guy. I see a steep uphill battle ahead.
Good luck!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8938 Posts |
@keith, he's a very well known coin doctor. He purchases coins from other sellers and then either artificially tones them and sells them raw, or gets them encapsulated by NGC, who then straight grades them, even though they are obviously artificially toned
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6529 Posts |
Now that I looked. I think it maybe all in the lighting  The coins on NGCs Site in the slabs dont look that color Edited by Keith67
05/20/2021 3:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5178 Posts |
I bet NGC is in a pickle. If MMV is a large volume dealer, NGC doesn't want to cut him off and send him straight into the arms of PCGS. After all, it is all about $$$.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6529 Posts |
Quote:
or gets them encapsulated by NGC, who then straight grades them, even though they are obviously artificially toned Then I put that on NGC. |
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Pillar of the Community
2223 Posts |
So much for having confidence in a major TPG . I don't have any knowledge or experience with toned coins. thanks for the info. And look at his feedback.  Another fine example of lack of integrity! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8938 Posts |
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And look at his feedback A Fool (or educated buyer) and His Money Are Soon Parted. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
I'm not sure if NGC would care about raw coins he'd doctored but I sold him this IHC on March 11th: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224381427936And March 28th this IHC was sold by him: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174697412310I'm fairly certain they're the same coin, but it's hard to tell as some things are hidden in my photos and vise-versa. Key similarities I saw are: The Rim Fin on the obverse, as well as the folded spots above the S and T in States and above the D in United. The Rim Bump at 7 o-clock The hit on the tip of the 4th from left headdress feather And then on the reverse: The hit on the E of Cent The hit on the O of One is also visible, but much less so The Rim bump at directly 12 o-clock |
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
NGC is to be blamed just as much as MMV, if not more so.IMHO. John1  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
My thoughts: Quote:
encapsulated by NGC, who then straight grades them, even though they are obviously artificially toned Must not be that obvious then... Quote:
. I think it maybe all in the lighting The coins on NGCs Site in the slabs dont look that color Though it may not explain everything, I agree with this. I made a couple comparisons with NGCs pics on the left and the seller's pics on the right. The photography and/or photo editing is clearly changing appearances:   Quote:
Then I put that on NGC. Quote:
NGC is to be blamed just as much as MMV, if not more so.IMHO.  with this the most. Finally, unless the differences in "natural" and "artificial" toning can be clearly delineated, this endeavor is probably for naught. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
I have dealt with Thomas for a few years . Very quick to pay and absolutely ZERO issues with him at all! I think , that it would probably be best to stay out of an issue that could well end up in a lawsuit if one is not careful . Personally I could give a dead petunia what he does with the coins after he buys them from me. As to NGC , PCGS and the other grading services certifying his or others coins with a similar look , they must deem them market acceptable . There is no such thing as Artificial or natural toning in the TPG orbit , only MARKET ACCEPTABLE TONING . The look that you see in Mikes copper and bronze coins is seen at many different dealer tables at any coin show . Edited by Pacificoin
05/20/2021 6:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
Unless there's definite evidences, this likely aren't going anywhere, I look at NGC conserve coins the same way, NGC can turn a dark brown Indian cent and turn it into Red Brown. |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,650 |
Posted 05/20/2021 3:37 pm
