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1921 Morgan Zerbe Special Strike

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aluminum penny's Avatar
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15 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2009  05:29 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add aluminum penny to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What is this coin, from what I have read its the color !
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2009  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Farran Zerbe was a noted numismatist, President of the ANA and the driving force behind the creation of the Peace dollar. It is said that as compensation for not having Peace dollars minted and ready for the ANA convention in the summer of 1921, the US Mint struck a series of "Proofs" of the 1921 Morgan dollar specifically for Zerbe. No official Morgan Proofs were minted that year, so no Proof dies were created. One set of 1921 Morgan dies was specially polished, and Zerbe's coins were all struck from this one pair. Most of the Zerbe Proofs currently extant have mirrored surfaces, but are not up to the normal Proof standard. Nobody knows for sure how many Zerbe Proofs were struck; estimates range up to 200.

After striking these Proofs, the die pair entered regular circulation striking duties. This specific die pair is the only die pair which gets the "Zerbe Dies" recognition, and is known as VAM-47 for that year. Here's the example which passed thru my collection, graded MS63 Prooflike by NGC:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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14454 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2009  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I remember that coin, I almost didn't want to send it back once it came back from NGC. It is a beautiful coin and I usually would never combine those words for a 1921 Morgan but this one was hard to send back to SuperDave after we had it graded
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/21/2009  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got $500 for that puppy. You weren't the only one who thought that way.
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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5611 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2009  10:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave, what was the grade from NGC on that beauty?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
SuperDave, what was the grade from NGC on that beauty?



Quote:
Here's the example which passed thru my collection, graded MS63 Prooflike by NGC:


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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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5611 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2014  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave, Thank You for your reply, I need to pay more attention, Dave I am researching this Die pair. I would appreciate any input you could give on any known PUP'S, That YOU have found to be factual Thx, Mike....
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/23/2014  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is currently some churning going on with regard to the Zerbe dies; Ashe Ashmore examined a couple of Zerbes and found them to be VAM-1AG which is distinct from VAM-47. So, it appears that two different die pairs were used to strike the Zerbe coins. I've not owned a VAM-1AG and have no imagery. Here's some detail pics from my 47, please forgive some of the quality as my imaging skills were in their infancy back then:

Lines around U:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

Obverse stars:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

Left wing - body intersection:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

Scribbles:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

Bow:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike


Misc:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

I have two rather brutally-large scans of the slabbed product which I'll email you, full size.

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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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5611 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2014  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave, I appreciate your time and effort on this topic. I will ask, is it still considered " a so-called Zerbe die" coin or die if the PUP'S like the scratch above the second you in UNUM on the OBV is not there.? Also the Reverse die scratch at the lower portion of the eagle's legs from one to another, not there too .. also the "die gouge" on the eagle's left inner wing about the forth Feather from the bottom up nearest the body, not there ....
I am aware of the LDS, THE VLDS, the EDS, the VEDS and all states between, that said is it still possible for a coin to not have these PUP'S and still be from the "so-called Zerbe Proof dies". Of course I ask in your opinion, Thx, Mike....
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2014  04:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am aware of the LDS, THE VLDS, the EDS, the VEDS and all states between, that said is it still possible for a coin to not have these PUP'S and still be from the "so-called Zerbe Proof dies". Of course I ask in your opinion, Thx, Mike....


Disabuse yourself of the term "so-called Zerbe dies." That's a term used only by SEGS, who have chosen to call every D1 Morgan by that moniker. The Zerbe dies are known pairs, V47 & V1AG. This conclusion is still sort of up in the air - it may always be - but Ash is a scholar of such standards that if he's convinced enough to put the theory forth, it has to be given serious consideration.

Like any die pair, these will have an evolving lifespan. The various identifying scratches will change over time, and as the dies age some will disappear entirely. The scribbles will tend to remain in sufficient detail to probably help at any stage of the die's life, but until such time as each VAM is rendered complete in detail like this, or better:

1921-Morgan--Zerbe-Special-Strike

....sufficient to identify each little die scratch, doubling point and design flaw, it will remain an inexact science.
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 02/06/2014  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave, Thanks for the facts and
your opinion......
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2014  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just spreading the word, man. I'll talk to anybody who will listen.
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