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1999 P Lincoln Cent Retained Struck Though Or Damage?

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 Posted 08/04/2022  4:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Struck throughs are something I know little about, so need some help with this. Let me know what you think, retained struck through or damage ( PSD). Let me know if you need additional pics, did the best I could with the angled shots, to show it was raised. Thanks for looking.





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 Posted 08/04/2022  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a tough one and I'm not sure. I'm looking forward to seeing where we come down on this one.
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 Posted 08/04/2022  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Spence. There are certain aspects that make me lean towards PSD but it's so clean looking, I'm not sure.
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 Posted 08/04/2022  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does look like a strike through to me.

I don't see any displaced material or damage to the copper plating. The edge of the anomaly is smooth and does not show as a wall or wave of displaced metal.

I'm also not seeing anything to call it a retained strike through, as that would show the channel as filled with whatever blocked the strike.

I like it!
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637

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 Posted 08/04/2022  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yokozuna, as I said, this is one of my weaknesses and know little about it but I thought a strike through would be recesses, this is raised and thought that's what the retained part would be, there is something still there. That being said though, the strike should have made it flush? and just displaced the planchet metal?
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 Posted 08/04/2022  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The picture is messing with my tiny little pea sized mind! I thought it was an incuse channel in the coin, not a raised line. Just forget anything I said up to this point, sorry!

@-makecents- Yes, on a Retained Strike Through the die would have forced whatever was on the die into the coin and deposited it there flush with the surface or almost so.

I have lots of Strike Through coins, but only 1 with a retained strike through type of situation. I'll have to dig that one out and image it.

I see now that this is a Raised Ridge above the fields. That would make me think it's a plating bubble, but the slight curvature is new to me.

Have you tried to depress a spot on this ridge with the point of a wooden toothpick? If it is a plating bubble it MAY flex slightly as you apply pressure.

You did nothing wrong with the description and images. I, on the other hand, missed the fact that it was a raised feature.
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637

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 Posted 08/04/2022  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would think if this incuse mark would not have a 'wave' of metal if it occurred while being struck. The die would keep the surrounding area unaffected. Now if it happened after it left the mint, I would expect to see some movement of the metal.
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 Posted 08/04/2022  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The color from the close up makes it much harder to judge. Normally here I would say struck through but I'm going to say it's coincidental PMD.

A close up with a much less grey lighting to show weather the zinc is exposed in the event in question.
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 Posted 08/04/2022  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alright, in the last post I made, I think I answered my own question. The fact that it's raised, leads me to believe it happened after the strike of the die, it would be level, if it were a retained strike through or as Yokozuna said, almost so, so the fact that it's raised, makes me believe it happened post strike, PSD.

Yokozuna, I did do the toothpick test, after you told me to, can't believe I did not think to do this before, I amaze myself sometimes.... Nothing happened but I was taught a few years ago, that this does not mean it is not a plating issue, just not a plating bubble, it can be solid and is what I think this is. The shape just threw me off. I added a pic to show after the toothpick. I pressed directly on the "S" and between the "D" and "S" and again between the "S" and "T". Nothing gave.

Dearborn, I'm not quite following your statement but it is not incuse, it is in relief and that's the rub. By the way, I had not congratulated you on your 10,000th post, congrats! Thank you for all of your valuable input, I've always appreciated it.

Wrekkdd, I have enjoyed watching how quickly you have picked up on so much, in a very short time, you are a sharp individual. I have not figured out how to get true color from my scope and it looks even worse if I try to color it after the fact. I think there may me some zinc showing through, very little but I think it's there. Good call though.


-makecents-
Edited by -makecents-
08/04/2022 10:08 pm
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 Posted 08/05/2022  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was refering to Yoko's post at 5:27 about the 'wave' on the coin.
I also missed that this feature was raised. at first look, it looked incused to me.
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 Posted 08/05/2022  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like a wire or a clean bristle that was struck onto the coin.



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 Posted 08/05/2022  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The raised area isn't flexing or depressing downward.
Why couldn't it be a long die gouge?

ps.
What is the Die State on this one, MDS?
And what's up with BER on the obverse? Broken post on the B and maybe the R?
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 Posted 08/05/2022  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HGK3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice curving, arcing shape to the raised feature, reminiscent of a struck through a rim burr, but raised. Is it possibly a die gouge caused by dropping one die onto another or bumping two dies at a slight angle? I can see a dent or gouge shaped like this being formed if just the arced edge of one die contacts the other.

When striking planchets after this incuse dent on the gouge would leave a raised "welt" (for lack of a better word) on the coin.

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 Posted 08/05/2022  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for checking it out, coop! Where it's raised, well above the fields and devices, after Yokozuna got me thinking correctly, a struck through or even retained struck through, didn't fit.

Petespockets55 and HGK3, I think you guys are correct, not sure why I did not think of that. It's the perfect shape of a die dent and would explain why it tapers at the ends. I think you guys have solved this one for me, just was not thinking correctly from the start.

Petespockets55, I'll take a closer look at the other items you asked about this evening.

Thanks for all the input, everyone!
-makecents-
Edited by -makecents-
08/05/2022 8:30 pm
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 Posted 08/05/2022  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
ps.
What is the Die State on this one, MDS?
And what's up with BER on the obverse? Broken post on the B and maybe the R?
Looks to be LEDS to EMDS. Tried to show some flow lines in the pics. Part of LIBERTY was just damaged. Thanks again for heading me in the right direction on this one.


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Edited by -makecents-
08/05/2022 8:31 pm
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 Posted 08/05/2022  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure looks like it's recessed to me. Looks like stuck through maybe a wire. If it is above the surface, then it would be a die crack and I would think there were more of them out there. And I've never seen a die crack looking that perfectly round and straight.
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