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 Replies: 22 / Views: 5,780 |
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New Member
Australia
3 Posts |
Hello. I have recently inherited several Saint-Gaudens $20 coins. One coin is dated 1921 which I understand is rare. Can anyone inform me how to detect counterfeits? Additionally, I have a 1919 Saint-Gaudens $20 coin. My understanding is that such coins were not minted in 1919. I'm assuming that this must be a counterfeit. If anyone can shed some light, that would be much appreciated. Regards. *** Edited by Staff to Add Year to Title. It's very important to have in the title. *** |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
735 Posts |
 Weight & diameter as well as photos of both sides would help. I've been collecting for a couple years... Favorite Coin's are Standing Liberty quarters, Working on my type set | Coffee, Corvettes, Coins & the CCF what could be better? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
 to the CCF! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
Having St Gaudens, I would recommend investing in calipers and weight scale for sure. Why do you suspect that the 1921 is counterfeit or do you just want to make sure it isn't? Were they inherited from a long-term collector/investor? Generally, inherited coins are not counterfeits but, definitely not always. You are correct, double eagles were not minted during the WWI years (1917-1919). That one is very interesting. Let us know what you find out? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4468 Posts |
The detail around the capitol building looks off. Note the star does not touch the corner column of the building on the genuine example. The star touches the corner column of the building on the OP example. The only date that I could find where the star touches the corner column is a 1907 high relief. The OP example appear to be a counterfeit. Could you post the reverse of the 1921 and the obverse of the 1919 as I would like to compare the details? Genuine Example  OP Example  Edited by Slider23
01/21/2023 12:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Considering that a mint state 1921 is $100k, I'd be suspicious too. Especially when a non-existent 1919 was in the group. The date does not look correct. Compare the 1s and the shape of 2.  The good news is that many counterfeits were made from real gold to evade the ban on owning gold, so there's a chance there's bullion value. Edited by kbbpll
01/21/2023 12:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
Looks like it was at one time mounted at the top
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
I also compared it to my St Gaudens. Then, I noticed that your coin is slightly mis-struck. Look at the distance between the stars and the rim on the right side. That could cause the stars by the Capitol to be shifted, as well as the Mint mark. At this point my jury is still out for authentication.
All that said, it could be the angle of your photo but, I don't think it is.
Edited by dsking
01/21/2023 5:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3634 Posts |
Better pics of obverse (and reverse) needed, as well as weight as previously mentioned. However, in addition to the things already mentioned, some of the other design elements just don't seem right, such as the details on Liberty's gown. Saint-Gaudens' monogram below the date looks off, as well, but that's possibly just the low resolution photo.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
@kbbpll - great detective work!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
I too would like to see better quality photos as well. Also, better focused and more true to color if possible. Weight and diameter may be the tell-all but, I think that we all need to see some adjustments to the photos.
Perhaps a black background would help?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
This looks fake. On the right is an authentic 1921 $20 ASG. Why does this coin look like liberty is falling over to the left?   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/21/2023 9:41 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
The date logo seems proof enough.
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Moderator
United States
187582 Posts |
to the Community! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Fakes use some transfer process to copy the design of the coin. Usually counterfeiters get the proportions right - the issue is loss of detail. I wonder what messed up transfer process was used to screw up the design so badly that Liberty looks like she's falling over compared to the other elements of the coin. You would need to come up with entirely new proportions in terms of distance between different elements of the original design to come up with this untidy new design.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
01/21/2023 10:00 pm
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Replies: 22 / Views: 5,780 |
Posted 01/21/2023 01:46 am
