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2009 D Presidency Penny Numbers (Confusing)

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Valued Member

United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2023  7:08 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So per PCGS and the US mint and everything else it says 784000 3.2 g "Satin Finish Pennies" were made And then 2 million and some change of the proof pennies in sets that weigh 3.2 g were made. With that said it says that the Presidency Satin Finish Penny Weighing 3.2 Grams there is only 784k of them and then the other 2million proof sets were made of which had the "Presidency Proof Penny"weighing 3.2 grams. So in short there are only 784k satin 3.2 gram pennys the rest would all be either Proofs which you can definitely tell that would weigh 3. grams or the copper zinc weighing 2.5 grams.
I ask this because the numbers on PCGS don't mix the have PCGS#408884 Showing a Presidency Penny weighing 2.5 grams BUT it says its composition is 95% Copper 5%Zinc and tin as well as showing that 784K if them were made? That is incorrect. Lincoln Resource says
They only made 198,000,000 Denver minted Presidency pennys were made "Period" and 129,600,000 Philadelphia Minted Presidency Pennys were made "Period". So out of those 2,995,615 were the S Proof Presidency Penny's weighing 3.2 Grams and then 784K 3.2 Gram Satin Finish Presidnency Pennys. All the rest would be the 2.5 Gram Pennys right? So then why does it say 198,000,000 Denver Minted Presidency Pennies weigh 2.5 Grams?
This makes no sense technically wouldn't you take the 2,995,615 S Proof Minted Presidency Pennies weighing 3.2 grams and subtract that from 198,000,000 and then subtract 784,000 of the Satin Finish Denver Minted Presidency Pennies weighing 3.2 Grams leaving a total of 194,220,386 Denver Minted Presidency Pennys weighing 2.5 Grams. and even less for the Philadelphia Presidency Pennies. There are a total of 3,779,615 "TOTAL" 3.2 Gram Presidnency Pennies Made. "784K " of those are the Satin Finish" Specially made out of the 95% Copper and 5% Copper and tin. Now I'm already thinking about Philadelphia's Presidsncy Penny so I'm just going to assume the number is the same? making it now 7,559,230 "TOTAL" 3.2 GRAM PRESIDENCY PENNIES OUT THERE 784K Denver minted Satin 784K Philadelphia minted Satin and then 2,995,615 of the proof of each Denver and Philadelphia Presidency Penny was made weighing 3.2 Grams ? Or are those only Sanfranciscco? and is the Sanfrancisco Proof Presidency Penny weighing 3.2 Grams the DCAM (is it the same?/ DCAM and S Proof. Anyhow the reason I was asking is because I have a business strike Presidency penny weighing 3.2 grams its not a satin finish and its not a proof so was going to send it in but then what the point when they dont even. have their own numbers correct? Thanks all. Only cool thing I guess is I have 5 total Presidency Pennies 4 of which weigh 2.5 grams 2 are Philli and 2 are Denver then I have this Denver weighing 3.2 and I bet if I lined them all up you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Uggghh what do I do ? Please help these numbers on PCGS and the like are really getting to me. Thank you
Valued Member
United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2023  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Using PCGS #407898 for 3.2 Gram Presidnency S Proof #s #407868 Regular Denver minted Presidency Strike #s and #407884 for the Satin Finish Denver Presidency Strike Numbers
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Canada
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 Posted 01/26/2023  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will brink you the Mint No. I do not know was it is the goal here. Except Mints reports any other sources could have some non intentional mistake.
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United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2023  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So if I'm right once PCGS and the rest fix their numbers then any Satin Finish 3.2 gram penny found would be 1 of 784K which is second to the 1909 S VDB Penny and if you could find a Presidency one I would think it would be worth more? because there's less total of them or would it be the same because you either have 1 of the 784,614 satin ones that were made or the almost 3 million Proof one made. I'm thinking the Satin Finish is where its at. Ive done a lot of research on Satin finish coins that have lost their Satin finish and I'm coming up with unless they're hammered they dont. Are there any Key markers on a satin finish penny that I could look for? As in to tell if it is an actual error being an actual business strike NOT a Satin finish thats lost its satin finish per say.
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United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2023  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im asking because PCGS numbers don't add up with the info as well as the other places you look for info. In the Lincoln Source page it clearly shows the act of congress etc etc amd it clearly states 3.2 Gram Pennies will only be made in PROOF AND SATIN FINISHES. On PCGS they have PCGS#408884 Showing a Presidency Penny weighing 2.5 grams BUT it says its composition is 95% Copper 5%Zinc and tin as well as showing that 784K if them were made? That is incorrect. If it were one of the Satin Finished Denver Minted Presidency Penny it would have weighed 3.2 with the composition of 95% copper and 5% zinc and tin. So either PCGS got it wrong and that was an ERROR being a 2.5 Gram Copper Presidency Penny having the composition of 95%Copper and 5% Zinc and Tin. You following me? and then when you look at the rest of the numbers.....in short they need to fix the numbers ill post pictures of my non satin finish Presidnency penny here in a few mixed in with a few others and see if you can tell which one it is. Its defintiely not a Proof so either someone opened up a special satin set of pennies of which they only made 784,000 and some change of to get a penny cause they were short on milk or I actually have a presidency penny business strike on a copper planchet which would be an error and the PCGS one I listed above saying it was 2.5 Grams and a copper planchet maybe that was an error as well. Being the Presidency Penny tho is even cooler because they're the least of them and the satin sets were 2nd in how many were created to the 1909 S VDB so pretty cool
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United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2023  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They also have PCGS#407884 and this one says Presidency "Satin Finish" 2.5 Grams Zinc 99.2% Zinc .08% Copper. So I dont think PCGS knows what's going on lol Satin Finish was only made in 3.2 Gram Copper 784k and some change of them period. The rest are all business strike other than the most 3 million proofs they made but those would all be S mint mark. So what the heck?
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 Posted 01/26/2023  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I give you first California


Quote:
2009 Lincoln ONE-CENT COIN - PRESIDENCY IN WASHINGTON, DC Coin Release: November 12, 2009 Mintage for Circulation: 327,600,000 Description: The fourth and last of the 2009 one-cent coin series commemorating the bicentennial of President Lincoln's birth and the 100th anniversary of the first issuance of the Lincoln cent, shows the half-finished United States Capitol dome. The design symbolizes a Nation torn apart by civil war and the resolve Lincoln showed as he guided the country through its gravest crisis. It was in front of the rising dome that Lincoln began his Presidency and under the completed dome that his body lay in state


In this number you has proof and satin. Easy to deduct.
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81 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2023  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
California made just under 3 million proofs weighing 3.2 Grams They only made the 3.2 Gram copper penny in a Satin Finish which according to the Lincoln Resource they only made 784K and some change of the P and D Mintmarks in a special set making them 2nd as rare as to the 1909 S VDB. So you have 784K amd some change of P and D 3.2 Gram Satin finish pennys (that came in a set period) then you have the 2,990,000 whatever made of the proofs from the San Francisco Mint. With that said everything else is business strike that per the Lincoln Resource Page. But when you look at PCGS#408884 Showing a Satin Finish Presidency Penny weighing 2.5 grams BUT it says its composition is 95% Copper 5%Zinc and tin as well as showing that 784K of them were made? Which is incorrect we know that they made that many at 3.2 Gram not 2.5 Gram in that copper make up. So either that was an error being a light copper planchet or then what is PCGS #407898 for 3.2 Gram Presidnency S Proof minted 2,995,614 3.2 Gram Pennys of each of the reverses. PCGS #407868 Regular Denver minted Business Presidency Strike minted 198,000,000 and PCGS #407884 for the Satin Finish Denver Presidency 3.2 gram had 784,000 and some change strike numbers. I'm telling you just write it down on paper and then you'll see it doesn't make sense they only made X amount of the proof and satin finish pennies weighing 3.2 grams the rest are all business strike and that is Per the Mint per the Lincoln Resource so why is PCGS and Tge Red Book not counting the numbers right.
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 Posted 01/26/2023  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Me I stop to question why the PCGS has wrong numbers from long time.
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United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2023  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry PCGS#407878 198,000,00 Denver Presidency Pennys 2.5 Grams 95% Zinc
PCGS#407884 Is the Satin Finish 3.11Gram Copper Denver Minted Prssidency with 784K made
PCGS#407899 Is the Presidency Sanfrancisco Proofs weighing 3.11 gram

I am finding some small errors when on other web pages especially with heritage auctions

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 Posted 01/26/2023  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heres what I have first on the mintages: Did you know there are differences in the circulated and uncirculated composition of these 2009 Lincoln cents? The circulating version of these coins uses the same metal content as other modern cents (2.5 percent copper, the rest zinc) weight 2.5g. The uncirculated version contains the metals used in the original 1909 cent (95 percent copper, 5 percent tin and zinc). The four 2009-S Proof Lincoln cent designs and the satin finish Lincoln cents in the 2009 Uncirculated Set were struck from 95% pure copper—the first time Lincoln cents had been made of copper since 1982. Weight 3.11g. PCGS designates these examples with a SP grade (instead of MS or PF).

In 2009, the United States Mint issued four different pennies as part of the Lincoln Bicentennial One Cent Program. The program recognized not only of the 200th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's birth, but also the 100th anniversary of the Lincoln cent, first appearing in 1909. The themes on the reverses represent the four major aspects of Lincoln's life:
See this link for images: https://www.usmint.gov/learn/coin-a...ial-one-cent
Birth and Early Childhood in Kentucky (1809-1816)
Formative Years in Indiana (1816-1830)
Professional Life in Illinois (1830-1861)
Presidency in Washington, D.C. (1861-1865)


The Mint has the authority to issue collector's versions of the coins in the original composition of 95% copper and 5% tin and zinc.

There were 2,995,615 Proof Sets made in 2009. The proof 2009 Lincoln cent designs were struck with a mirror finish in the fields with frosted features. They were struck on solid 95% copper bronze planchets, just like the original 1909 Lincoln cent. The proof 2009-S Lincoln cents were only available in the 18-coin 2009 Proof Set, made at the San Francisco Mint. In addition to the four proof 2009 Lincoln cents, each set contained four proof Presidential dollar coins, one proof Sacagawea dollar coin, six proof State Quarter designs, one proof dime, one proof nickel, and one proof Kennedy half dollar.

784,614 Uncirculated mint sets were produced in 2009.

The satin-finish 2009 Lincoln cents were only issued as part of the 2009 Uncirculated coin sets. These sets used special burnished dies to give a satin finish to the fields on each coin. The 2009 Uncirculated coin set comprised 36 coins, double the number in the Proof sets. These sets featured all 18 coin designs and denominations issued in 2009 for both the Philadelphia and Denver Mints.

Birthplace
Philadelphia Denver Total
284,400,000 350,400,000 634,800,000
Formative Years
376,000,000 363,600,000 739,600,000
Professional Life
316,000,000 336,000,000 652,000,000
Presidency
129,600,000 198,000,000 327,600,000
Totals
1,106,000,000 1,248,000,000 2,345,600,000
Edited by datadragon
01/26/2023 10:35 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2023  12:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have a business strike Presidency penny weighing 3.2 grams its not a satin finish and its not a proof


So there has been speculation that transitional errors might exist for the 2009 year. You can post a pic of your coin to see if others feel its a satin put into circulation or a circulation heavier within tolerance. Otherwise if not see page 14 of the strike it rich with pocket change 5th edition book and perhaps might reach out to him after posting here as he describes what to look for such as the wrong planchets meant for one of those types like the satin or proof possibly going to the wrong press for a circulation strike, or used in a different year before or after 2009. In other words what you are describing finding say a business strike with a satin finish weight but no satin finish might exist but noone knows about it to look until it was put into that book and that would be an amazing find for the first who has one.
Edited by datadragon
01/27/2023 12:21 am
Valued Member
United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2023  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok so here are the 4 Presidency Pennys I have which one do you think is the one that weighs 3.2 Grams and is supposed to be one of the 780,614 (or whatever that number was) of The Special Satin made 3.2 Gram Special Copper Composition of 95% copper 3%Tin 2% Zinc. We Obviously can tell none of these are any of the almost 3,000,000 3.2 Gram Proof Ones Made from San Francisco


















Valued Member
United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2023  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Will it be the 1st set of 4 pictures the 2nd set the 3rd set or maybe the 4th set of 4 pictures I'll post the answer with a picture shortly.
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 Posted 01/27/2023  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Valued Member
United States
81 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2023  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aliabeans to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are pictures of the reverses of 2 of the darker Presidency pennys and as you can see one of them is 3 Grams


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