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 Replies: 51 / Views: 8,668 |
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New Member
 United States
15 Posts |
Quote:
SHANERX'ed! I like that ... and thanks!  Strange how a dealer would have such items? I just got the PCGS newsletter and one of the highlight topics was about conterfeit coins. They're getting better and better at this I guess ... it's a scary world out there. I'm in the low-mid range for my collection, but on my limited budget I still only buy NGC or PCGS coins. I have no worries with them. I'm just not knowledgable enough to buy an ultra-expensive coin - until I learn more I stick with the top two. (Heck, just 20 months ago I thought SGS was 'da bomb'!) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1055 Posts |
It is amazing to me how so many people fall to these slabbed coin scams and don't realize they are buying junk for a premium price...It is just another example of how research and attention to detail are so important in the world of coin collecting!  I also think it is strange that a dealer would have those slabs and then not want to talk about them. Maybe they know they got taken and are still bitter about the experience. |
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New Member
Netherlands
32 Posts |
centsles has MANY NNC graded coins on ebay right now. I have to admit that I have purchased many PL and DMPL Morgans in past years with NNC slabs (from many dealers) and my experience crossing them over to PCGS (recently) is as follows: NOTE: All of them I cracked out before submission. Also all were MS (64-66) and either PL or DMPL Morgans (according to NNC slab) About 30+ coins in total. 1) About 1/3 came back as GENUINE - NON GRADABLE (Mostly "Genuine 94 - Altered Surface" or "Genuine 92 - Cleaned" ) -> IE, problem coins 2) The rest (2/3) were graded by PCGS but, a) most of the DMPL coins were downgraded to PL b) numerical scores were downgraded 2-5 points on average c) ALL PL coins came back downgraded without PL status d) a few MS slabbed coins came back as AU 55 or AU 58 "Best" crossover : NNC MS66 DMPL -> PCGS MS64DMPL "Average" crossover examples: NNC MS66 DMPL -> PCGS MS63PL, NNC MS64PL -> PCGS MS62 "Worst" (besides the problem coins) NNC MS65 DMPL -> PCGS AU58 In Summary: There ARE good coins in NNC slabs , but in my opinion GET THEM OUT OF THAT SLAB AND INTO A PROPER ONE!Why someone would send to NNC, I don't have a clue! Also take extreme caution when buying as nearly 1/3 may be cleaned or problem coins. The physical NNC slabs are HORRIBLE, BTW. If you drop the slab it will crack and the coin will almost fall out (maybe that's a good thing..) What a joke.... Edited by skylerdmpl
05/08/2009 4:57 pm
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New Member
Netherlands
32 Posts |
One additional comment to add to my post above regarding NNC. In my case I only purchased Morgan $1's and I do not think there are too many fake Morgans out there. That's why I thought it was semi-safe to purchase and took risk not to mention I PURCHASED FOR FAIRLY CHEAP. I avoided high priced NNC coins. Also, I have seen some gold and other "high fraud risk" coins slabbed by NNC and I would definitely avoid those all together.
To go back to poll from ShanerX: I would vote SGS to be the worst. In my case I had MAJORITY of Morgans cleaned/altered from SGS. At least with NNC it was only 1 out of 3 cleaned!
Edited by skylerdmpl
05/08/2009 2:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
One thing about NNC and INB and their ilk - they may say they will slab coins, but it's more than likely smoke and mirrors to appear like a legitimate grading service - I seriously doubt anyone actually sends their coins to them to be slabbed (unless they are completely uninformed). These people mostly slab their own pocket change and probably what they can get in rolls from the bank.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
As has been said, centsles and NNC are one and the same, and in my mind the saddest story of them all. The man behind both is an established numismatist - a previous winner of the PCGS Grading contest - and by every indication an honest (financially) businessman. He will always honor his return policy, no questions asked.
He has just apparently managed to rationalize taking advantage of unknowing collectors through the offering of overgraded coins. Admittedly, most of his stuff tends to sell at an appropriate price for the true grade (maybe that's how they rationalize it), but if one sucker gets taken in by buying the slab and not the coin, that's on him.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
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The man behind both is an established numismatist - a previous winner of the PCGS Grading contest - and by every indication an honest (financially) businessman. wow.. really?  What happened? Someone doesn't have integrity, then suddenly.. not. Or else, maybe there wasn't any there to begin with. Suddenly I am really depressed. |
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New Member
United States
15 Posts |
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About 1/3 came back as GENUINE - NON GRADABLE ... Shocking , yet outstanding details skylerdmpl - that is precisely what someone would look for - solid numbers! $$ becomes the key force I guess (not for me ... I don't have much haha!). The more everyone knows the better we'll all be! Cleaned coins wouldn't be that bad for a folder album to get started ... if you knew they were cleaned beforehand! Quote:
buy the coin and not the slab I did take that kind advise and scored me a beautiful NGC 2006 20th Anniv. PF69 ASE for a bargain (bargain!) price! Slab is fairly scratched, and too badly to try any removers or polishes. I'm going to send in to reholder (NGC), and even with S&H + INS I still faired well! |
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New Member
Netherlands
32 Posts |
Very interesting about the man behind NNC. One of the problems is that he seems to sell to people potentially cheap, but then they try to sell and mark up coin for value on label. Here a new one on ebay now: NNC 1798(Bust)$1 F12 (Hope this link works) http://cgi.ebay.com/1798-Dollar-FIN...IP_W0QQitemZ220385896402QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item335005e7d2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2%7C65:1%7C39:1%7C240:1318%7C301:0%7C293:3%7C294:50 Looking at the reverse of this coin it would almost definitely get a "PCGS GENUINE -NON GRADABLE" assuming that it is not a fake. Seller seems to have some other NNC coins in his portfolio including some more expensive NNC golds..... Edited by skylerdmpl
05/10/2009 05:00 am
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New Member
United States
3 Posts |
I'm glad I found this thread. I'm a new collector and might have fallen for these. I did buy a few coins off e-bay this weekend. Luckily not from any of these sellers. I'm into half's and any push in the right will be appreciated.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
 SeaSoldier! If these posts help just one person, it's worth it. Lots of other great info here.. a peek at the Classic US forum could give some good info on halves. If you don't see the information you need over there, post a question, and the resident experts will chime in  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Sorry, I just re-thunk that and I had assumed you meant bust halves! .. if you are into Kennedy or other halves, have a look at the Modern US forum.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
First of all, as said so often BUY THE COIN NOT the packaging!!! I have purchased coins from centsels and returned all but 4 of them. They were varities and not known to them. Was well worth my while.  BUT, it was mentioned that the slab breaks .. all you need to do is slightly twist the slab and help a little bit with a knife and VOILA, it is open, reday to be exchanged with whatever...  NNC coins / slabs are now showing up in Europe at reputable auction houses and, to get buyer's interest up, these slabs are described as "slabbed and graded" in the USA. I wrote to one of the auctioneers last week to make him aware of NNC's reputation.....NO answer. I should have known as I am a born German myself.... They have their nose up in the air and know it all better.  I hope you all are aware that Centsels also owns world_coinzthey use it unly when the main co gets too hot for some reason or another. ALL 3 , Centsels, World_coinz and NNC have the same address. I inquired about fraud charges being laid against them with the AG in Florida. NO GO, as there is NO established grading norm to base grades on. The person I spoke with in FL indicated that if the unconditional return policy would not be, there may be a possibilty of State government interferrence applying consumer protection laws. there is presently NO law, consumer or otherwise, which regulates coin grading!!!Hence, the term subjective does apply...... beats me...but it is apparently legal, profitable amd there are always uninformed collectors or opportunists around who fall for it.  HHB |
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Valued Member
Canada
166 Posts |
I almost bought an "appraised" diamond ring from centles until I read this forum. THANK GOD!! There was recently a 1966 Canadian Small Beads Dollar (major rarity in Canada and even a "dog" will get a couple of thousand dollars up here) in a NNC holder. What a shame. I wonder if it really was a small beads. I wonder if it might be the coin now on ebay as "PCGS Genuine" (and they still want $4K, but won't get it. Thanks |
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New Member
Netherlands
32 Posts |
ShanerX, Here is a new one for your list and in my opinion it is the WORST OF THE WORST! WCG - World ( http://www.worldcoingrading.com/)Here is a seller on ebay that has a lot of them: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/RAVALEX...Q2ec0Q2em322These are the most over-graded coins I have ever seen. My only experience with this slab has been with two coins , both 1889-S DMPL that I later sent to PCGS. These coins were two of the dullest I have ever seen and cannot imagine why they put a "DMPL" on the slab. They were not even semi-PL. Also they had clear traces of ware. 1) WCG Morgan 1889-S MS67DMPL => PCGS AU55 2) WCG Morgan 1889-S MS67DMPL => CLEANED Seems MS66 & MS67 are WCG's favorite scores. Would love to see their population report!...... |
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Posted 04/29/2009 1:59 pm
