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History Of The 2008 / 2007 Reverse ASE Variant

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 Posted 04/20/2025  3:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Boba Debt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have read about how this happened from several sources but non really give any context as to how long the process of discovery lasted before it became fact.


Was anyone around during that time?

Are there historical topics about it?


I'm interested because I am going to submit three 2014 Native American dollar Coins with the "Omitted Frost Details on the Reverse" for grading as possible errors or die variants

And I would love the see how the 2008/2007 ASE discovery process unfolded.



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Marve65's Avatar
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 Posted 04/20/2025  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marve65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Was anyone around during that time?


It was only 19 years ago
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 Posted 04/20/2025  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Not long after the first 2008 silver eagles came out, it was reported that the coins had been "re-hubbed." A hub is used to make dies, which in turn strike coins. Re-hubbing, therefore, meant that a new design template was being used to create all the dies that struck these coins. While the major design elements of the coin had not changed, subtle alterations had been made to the lettering and elsewhere. This change was consistent across the entire silver eagle production of 2008, including bullion, Proof, and Uncirculated versions of the coin. In the course of producing modern coinage, these types of subtle changes occur over time. Technical aspects of minting, including attempts to prolong die-life and improve the clarity with which the design renders on the coin, find their way into the design process. According to the U.S. Mint, the changes seen on the 2008 silver eagles were made because of the adoption of digital engraving in the production of silver eagle dies. This was a more efficient and cost-effective method of production. To accommodate this new process, a handful of modest changes were made to the coin. The most noticeable change occurred on the style of a single letter. In 2008, the U had a spur or foot on its right side, while on all previous issues the spur was absent—the old U was a simple bowl shape. Even though it affected just a single, small letter, this change was the tell-tale diagnostic that allowed the reverse hub of 2008 to be distinguished instantaneously from that used in previous years. In mid-April 2008, only a couple of weeks after the first 2008-W silver eagles were sold, collector John Nanney of Georgia noticed that a small number of coins had the old reverse style of 2007. This immediately ignited a search among collectors, and interest in this curious variety began to grow. When the variety was confirmed by the grading services, the search became a frenzy, and a number of collectors placed additional orders for coins from the Mint. Numerous inquiries were directed to the U.S. Mint. The Mint responded quickly, acknowledging that during three production shifts for the 2008 coins, dies originally crafted for 2007-W silver eagle production were used inadvertently. Approximately 47,000 silver eagles had been struck with the reverse style of 2007. This type of variety is called transitional because it is a hybrid that combines the styles of coins used in two consecutive years. The 2008-W Reverse of 2007 silver eagle is the only significant die-variety in the entire silver eagle series, and it is collected by enthusiasts as a required coin in the complete set. The coins were crafted from designs by A.A. Weinman and John Mercanti. Weinman, who is responsible for the obverse design, originally created this composition for the Liberty Walking half dollar first released in 1916. It shows Liberty striding amidst the rising sun, and the design was long considered to be the most attractive ever used on a U.S. silver coin. The reverse heraldic eagle composition was designed and engraved by Mercanti."
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 Posted 04/20/2025  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After absorbing all that:
I would actually hesitate to call this variety an "error" at all.
If the mint as a whole could speak for itself, they'd probably say "it was intentional, and given the chance they'd do it again!"
Why?
Because even though they changed the hub, the die they used still had 47,000 strikes left on it, because that's how many they made with it.
Not sure how many strikes they allow, but it's numbered and they know exactly how many were made like this.
I don't think they particularly care that it's a transitional variety. They just care that they got the maximum use out of that die. Whether they really realized it was going to cause a transitional variety or not, I don't know, but again if someone caught it beforehand, they'd probably shrug it off, "oh yeah, I guess so! What soup do they have in the cafeteria today?"
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 Posted 04/20/2025  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Marve...for making many of us feel old.....
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 Posted 04/20/2025  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marve65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks Marve...for making many of us feel old

Come on now - the only time we feel old is when we look in the mirror!
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297 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2025  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Boba Debt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From what I have read it was 15 dies

I don't know how that works but I assume there is more then one machine striking coins at any given time

This topic wasn't really about the facts of the issue, it was more about the historical conversations about the emergence of this issue.

After a lot of googling I found 3 topics, 2 from this forum and one from Coin Talk



CCF 04/26/2008
2008 ASE With 2007 Reverse
https://goccf.com/t/29283


CCF 06/01/2008

2008 ASE With 2007 Reverse
https://goccf.com/t/31059



Coin Talk 08/10/2009
2008 silver eagle w/ 2007 reverse
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/20...verse.64926/


These occured after the discovery, but I couldn't find any about when it was first discovered

I thought it would be interesting to read these with the knowledge of what eventually happened

Edited by Boba Debt
04/21/2025 12:17 am
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 Posted 04/21/2025  04:53 am  Show Profile   Check Gilly's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Gilly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah well, leave it to me to stay off topic.
It's what I do.
But this is a pretty narrow topic. How soon after discovery did it make the Internet.
It would be interesting to know how many machines are making them at a given time. I'd think it's not as many making the collectors coins as there are making bullion.
I would stand by the assumption it was only one die, and probably only because it had too much life left in it to destroy, that's a lot of coins they made with it or them.
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 Posted 04/21/2025  08:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Boba Debt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS Web Site

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin...-2007/396411

Once the 2008-W Reverse of 2007 Uncirculated Silver Eagle errors surfaced, the U.S. Mint evaluated their coin inventory and discovered that at least 15 reverse dies from 2007 were employed to strike the reverse design of 2008-W Silver Eagles. Since the Mint strikes approximately 3,000 coins per each set of dies for the Burnished Silver Eagles, there are approximately 45,000 - 2008 Silver Eagles with a Reverse design of 2007 in existence.



MyCoinGuides

https://silvereagleguide.com/2008-w...rse-of-2007/

The Reverse of 2007 Variety is the scarcer version of the coin and carries a big premium. Shortly after the discovery of the coin, the U.S. Mint estimated that approximately 47,000 of the variety may have been released. This estimate was based on the fact that West Point Mint employees found 15 dies with the reverse type of 2007.
The mintage estimate was later revised to 46,318 within a response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Edited by Boba Debt
04/21/2025 08:23 am
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