VAMs. Where Is The Hobby Headed?

Does a clashed MS64 carry any less a premium than a non-clashed MS64? However sometimes that clashed MS64 brings a huge premium. There are still collectors that go after BRIGHT WHITE coins and avoid ANYTHING else. The great part about coin collecting is that there is something for everyone. For me... its VAMs.

I collect Morgan dollars that look good. I like the blast white, proof like or semi proof like look.
I have two coins that are interesting in that both are VAM 1's. Coins that are normal without any distinguishing marks. One is a 1883-S MS 62 and the other is a 1921-D MS 61. It has scribbles but not enough to list.

From a vammers point of view these are anomalies. From a collectors point of view, both are blast white and aesthetically pleasing.

I asked in the beginning of the thread where the hobby is headed? While individually we may not drive the bus, we certainly (collectively)direct the traffic.
To be successful in the VAM hobby requires you (the novice, intermediate or advanced collector) to do your home work (due diligence).

Define your collecting goals and try to stay true to them especially if you have plans later on with what to do with your collection should you need the money for any reason. While most don't like to think of an eventuality, think end game and what you what you would like to do with your collection, if anything at all. You can be an accumulator if you want and if that makes you happy that is your business.

If you are going to purchase 'raw coins' you will be better equipped if you can grade accurately. You will need to self access and there are many ways to do this. Compare your coins to accurately graded on line photographs. Participate in this forum with pictures of coins asking for grades. Don't pout if you don't like the answers, but rather use the data to self improve your skills. Always remember, a problem coin will always remain a problem coin and not everyone doesn't mind owning them, even if you do.

If you can't grade worth a darn, use one of the top tier third party grading companies. PCGS, NGC, ANACS or IGC for certified coins. Talk to dealers in your area and see what third party grading companies they favor. Ask them why they favor them? If it isn't these four ask them why? Please understand these four are considered the top tier (by the market) and (while some are good)others are not. Again the market has decided this for a variety of reasons. If the dealers are not using these four, it will say a lot about your dealer. This is especially true if you are going to purchase high end coins.
Be realistic in your goals and be comfortable with them and above all, but the coin, not the holder. Don't be afraid to trust your instincts.

Try to learn attributions and assess your skill periodically. There are many publications, books and DVD's that can help in this regard.

Also, one thing to remember about vamming, it is a work in progress and it is dynamic. Things change and are not etched in stone.

If I think of others, and I am sure I will, I will post later.

You see the same things I see. The site you refer to should have been left to grow as a purely academic pursuit. It was (at one time) largely populated by like minded academic purists intent on furthering the knowledge base of the hobby freely sharing information. Tit-for-tat. A lot of knowledge was exchanged and as we know knowledge is dynamic. Unfortunately, that perception has changed.
While the academic site is a constant work in progress, many of the like minded purists no longer post or share their knowledge or if they share it isn't the instantaneous 'like it used to be' as soon as someone knows something and could share.
The why of this is like many things, it complicated. I call it the 'politics of dancing'.
You have many competing interests, particularly dealers and some collectors who want to sell vams that earn them very large premiums.4,6, 8, 10 times or more the price that was paid for those coins. For those few, and I believe the number is few, you don't see a lot of sharing data, especially pick up points. Why would people who make a living off what they took the time to learn teach others the same 'tricks of the trade'? They are there to make money off the new people entering the hobby, whether they are coming or going.

You have had much more discourse in this area relative to that issue and have been on the sharp end when these same egocentric individuals with their dogmatic views basically tell you how it is or supposed to be.

Sharing is a relative word. To some it means to freely share, to teach, to mentor, to help others learn and appreciate the hobby. I have been fortunate in that I have two mentors who are also dear friends who have helped me understand the finer points of a very difficult but very satisfying hobby to learn.
To others it is just another way to make money off the unsuspecting and these come in many disguises.

I think the thrust of where is the hobby headed when I chose to write this is for those to be able to thrive they must first learn to identify and then learn to swim with the sharks without becoming one. It is a very difficult proposition as you yourself have experienced.

I tried to warn you.
These same people do not think they are harming the hobby. They make money from it and think if it is good for them, it must be good for the hobby as they are constantly promoting the hobby.

Any time you have competing interests, always a point of contention is where should the hobby be headed? There are heated arguments from many people associated with the hobby, especially insiders who have a very strong vested interests and it is considered contentious to be brought up in a public forum.

The really sad part here, and I want to make this very clear, these aren't Machiavellian characters heck bent on destroying the hobby. These are well meaning polite people with strong personalities that want a healthy hobby, but they want a healthy hobby more for selfish reasons and sometimes that aspect gets in their way.

You know guys, I have learned more today alone than I have in the last year and a half. More of what really matters anyway. I am as dense and narrow minded as a person can be. A trait that I abhor in others, but find now in myself. Someone told me what they think of me this morning, about my personality, my character. I was shocked, offended, and my feelings were hurt.

I studied my accuser's words, I stood in front of the mirror for an eternity, pondering why I do the things that I do, why I am the way that I am. I had no answers. This guy was right. If he sees me this way, and it is also evident to me now, then everyone else must see me in the same light. This evening I realize that he has given me reason to change, to improve, and I thank him for that. A good many things I can see more clearly now, all of a sudden, like a bolt of lightning.

This entire thread, I had read, post by post, day by day, painfully thinking to myself, why is Oz dwelling on this stuff so much? Who is he talking to? Every day, more of the same......I thought 'what is this guy thinking?' Does he not know that everything that he is saying is perfectly clear and obvious to all of us? 'What a waste of time', I thought. It was all true, but did not need to be said. What a boring and pointless thread.

WELL......All of a sudden, this evening, my brain shifts into gear, and it all makes sense to me now. This is probably the most pertinent and important thread I have encountered after all. I read it page by page, post by post, all at once, like a book, and things are falling into place and tying together now. Knowledge really 'is' King.....it 'is' power......but not power for the offensive, but for the defensive. Self defense, what could be more important or pertinent today?

Your words of wisdom mean nothing Terry, to those whom you defend against, and that is because you are not seen as prey, you are not the target. You are not because you are known to possess this power, this knowledge that protects you like an aura. When was the last time you bought a coin on Vamquest? Only the new, the unskilled, the inexperienced are viewed upon as prey.

Your words of wisdom meant nothing to me either, because I don't buy or hunt vams, but mainly because I have been lost in my own agenda of cause and effect, your words went in my left ear and out my right. I have been oblivious to all of the wonderful things that have slipped by me because I chose not to listen, I had more important things to consider. (What an idiot am I).

I had often wondered why do you guys frequent both this site as well as the other? How, and why do do walk the fence? Well, I wonder no more. I am ashamed.

I come to this forum to add to the knowledge base in my own small way. The truth be known, I prefer to fly under the radar. It is easier.
Self assessment is an uncommon trait. I will let you in a secret Zee. One day I had a seven hour drive and had a lot of time to think so I listed ten traits about myself I did not like. # 1 on the list was I considered myself too judgemental. I have never liked this aspect of myself.

On the drive back, I listed the ten things I liked best about myself. # 1 on the list, I can make a decision and live with it, and do it quickly. Apparently, judgemental people can do this. The point here is
every aspect I didn't like about myself, were opposites of the strengths I did like about myself. We are what we are. It's what we do with it, that is important. I choose to help mentor and share.
I am typing this in the hope you will not be so harsh in your criticism of yourself.

This forum is well suited for people who like to help and share their knowledge and skills with beginners and those more advanced in the hobby.

Vamming isn't easy.

Everyone learns at different paces. People are visual learners. It is not surprising as we live in a visual society.
The thrust of my argument is to be defensive. To be armed with knowledge so that anyone with what ever skill level can make reasoned well thought out judgement calls relevant to their collecting needs.
You asked who was I speaking to? Apparently quite a number of people as this thread has apparently resonated well.

Last, but not least. Yes, I have purchased from VAMquest. Remember the thrust here, was to learn to swim with the sharks and not get bitten.

There are those who consider vamming akin to comparing pimples on some one's buttocks. I think you could make a good argument that would qualify that as 'intense'.