Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest! Check out our Google+!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

Possible Dating Method for Unreadable SLQs  
 

Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2010  5:24 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add thunderchops to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello Fellow SLQ Lovers!

I've read every forum I can find on date identification of Standing Liberty quarters and from what I've gathered I can identify numerous unreadable date coins just from deductive reasoning. Yesterday I was able to identify the following out of my junk SLQ collection:

- (3) 1917-P Type I
- (1) 1917-S Type II
- (1) 1917-D Type II
- (2) 1920-P
- (19) Type II P Either 1917, 1918, 1919, 1921, 1923, or 1924
(minimum "good" book value of $15)
- (1) Type II D Either 1917, 1918, 1919, or 1924
(minimum "good" book value of $40)
- (5) Type II S Either 1917, 1918, 1918/17, 1919, 1923, 1924
(minimum "good" book value of $17)

So I have 25 coins that if I were able to determine just the last digit I could claim a $15 to a $1,500 coin.

There is definitely a benefit to knowing this one digit if a method existed. I've read about liquids called Silv-A-Date and even Silver Date-Back but can't find anyplace that sells them. I even read how someone used vinegar and received poor results. I only want to reveal one digit so I don't need a dip, I need a drop. Preferably something that will stick to the coin until you remove it. Maybe even a small sticker with the chemical on it.

Anyway, now for my method of deduction (I think I've been watching too much Sherlock on Masterpiece):

Type I Coins
1. If reverse has no stars under the eagle it is a Type I 1916 or 1917 P, D, or S. Easy.
2. If obverse has D or S you have a 1917 D or S. Again, easy.
3. If obverse has no mint mark (and based on wear samples I've seen, the mint mark would very likely be visible) check this photo done by someone who did a very good job (I'd like to give them credit but I don't know who they are) and you either have a 1917-P or 1916-P (celebrate and have it slabbed by someone besides NGC because I'm told they won't slab them with no date): http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/...exp-horz.jpg

Therefore ALL Type I coins can be identified assuming they are not worn beyond collectible (and I haven't found one yet not collectible).

Type II Coins (three stars below eagle on obverse)
1. Look at the star left of where the mint mark would normally reside. If it is visible but the date is missing, you have a pre-1925 SLQ. If it has no star and no date it is most likely a post 1924 coin or a pre-1925 in very worn condition and probably not worth more than bullion, but that's not in the scope of this post.
2. If it is a pre-1925 SLQ, look for any piece of the date but most likely you'll only see the last digit or no digit at all if you are even referencing this guide. The two that I've seen come up is the "7" and the "0" which positively identifies the coin as a Type II 1917 or 1920 (again, happy time).
3. If you can't make out any digits but you can see that star clearly and the two edges of the pedestal, it is not a 1920. I think the "0" would show for the same wear that a 7, 8, 9, 3, or 4 would disappear.
4. If you have a mint-mark (which would be clear if you can see that star), you can further deduce that in the case of a "D" with no "0" you have a 1917, 1918, 1919 or 1924 and it's minimum grade would probably be good and a $40 price tag. A "S" with no "0" indicates a 1917, 1918, 1918/17, 1919, 1923 or 1924 and a $15 price tag.

So if you can see the edges of the pedestal clearly you can also positively identify all Type II 1917-PDS and 1920-PDS.

Another obvious deduction from all this is, if you cannot see the star but you can see enough of the last digit of the date, you can now positively identify any coin post-1924. That includes the very expensive 1927-S.

Take a look at your scrap SLQs again and get them slabbed if they can be identified and they are worth the money. Once slabbed they are liquid for more than just bullion.

Now, anyone have an idea of how to bring out that last digit on those pre-1925 Type IIs with minimal damage to the coin? I'd like to turn my (25) pre-1925 from mysteries to money.

Thanks for the time and I hope this helps,
Dave
Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2010  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Diagnostics to distinguish a 1916 have been discussed here quite extensively.

The stars for pre-and post '25 are new to me, though.

Our resident SLQ pros will be along shortly.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3275 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  01:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cool thanks is this a valuable SLQ? :)

Pillar of the Community
United States
3073 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  02:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
very nice info, but as far as the date restoring solutions, I think they went out of favor as after time they only turned the date area black and unreadable once again....at least mine did...
Pillar of the Community
United States
3591 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  05:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting and informative but I'm a little skeptical about how many people will pay good money for a no date SLQ, except the 1916 .
Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wheatguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Scooby, the methods used to diagnose the Type 1's have been discussed here and other places to a great extent. Good points, however if that much deductive reasoning must be used to make an estimate on the date ranges of an SLQ, they will have a hard time selling if it isn't slabbed. I gathered from your post that identifying dateless post-1917's is partly guessing the possible dates of a coin, so unless some part of the date is showing the majority of collectors will assume the coin to be dateless and therefore have no value over melt.

There are certain diagnostics for identifying dateless 1916's, and I'll link a couple of threads where a member has found a dateless 1916 in junk silver lots.

http://goccf.com/t/69440&whichpage=1
http://goccf.com/t/59994&SearchTerms=1916,slq

Here's a thread where a member tried various methods to bring out the date on SLQ's, with limited to no success, depending on your perspective:

http://goccf.com/t/70019
Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  12:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenRingold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now how about the Buffalo nickel?
Pillar of the Community
United States
3267 Posts
 Posted 12/20/2010  04:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now Fenton that is clearly not a silver ahh..coin
Valued Member
United States
439 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thecoinczar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very detailed and informative. You've done some studying and research, huh? I just have a few Standing Liberty quarters that are in fine to very fine condition. It isn't a type that I am actively collecting, but if I do I will definitely refer to your dating methods in your posting.
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thunderchops to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a good example of a 1917 being sold as a 1916:

http://i.ebayimg.com/04/!B5q0s6!CGk...oSVw~~_3.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.com/1916-ICG-FAIR2-...em5196e9c21e

The dot-line pattern above the head is intact indicating a 1917. That's the easy way to tell.

I've contacted ICG and the cert number is fine. Looks like they either graded it wrong, there are two patterns for 1916s (not bloody likely), or someone broke into a perfectly good 1916 ICG slab and replaced the 1916 with a 1917. How many people would really notice? What a deal, two for one.

I've contacted the seller numerous times and he seems very honest but not convinced.

Anyone on my side on this?

Thanks,
Dave
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14047 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I've contacted ICG and the cert number is fine. Looks like they either graded it wrong, there are two patterns for 1916s (not bloody likely), or someone broke into a perfectly good 1916 ICG slab and replaced the 1916 with a 1917. How many people would really notice? What a deal, two for one.

If by "graded it wrong" you mean misidentified a 1917 as a 1916 then I would agree. The grade looks spot on.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  7:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Someone posted online that any SLQ without a date is a hardsell .
Chemically dating would alter the coin and knock the value way down.

so lets say you have a no-date type 1 1916 or 1917
A G3 1916 still has a readable date is $2,900
A G3 1917 has a readable date and is worth $22

Ether way you still have a nodate 16 or 17 type1
No readable date means its "poor" in other wards scrap bullion price

Lets say you manage to pull out a 6 in the last digit , Its still not a full readble date AND you altered the coin doing it by etching or what ever you did to get that digit.
No one will grade it for all they know the 6 might be fake and added after the fact


lets go even further, you manage to identify it as a 1916 from the coins features as the head ,shield,drapery
You still have a Poor condition 1916 type 1 with no date and I doubt anyone will slab it .
T
Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You still have a Poor condition 1916 type 1 with no date and I doubt anyone will slab it .


If a TPG can tell by the diagnostics, why wouldn't they slab it? There have been a couple people on the forum that have had their dateless 1916's slabbed and graded. That's why it's worth the effort to learn the diagnostics.
New Member
United States
10 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thunderchops to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
you manage to identify it as a 1916 from the coins features as the head ,shield,drapery
You still have a Poor condition 1916 type 1 with no date and I doubt anyone will slab it .

ANACS does and so does ICG. Or at least ANACS did. I confirmed that ICG still does. I've never sent one in to ANACS but I've seen them.

Here's one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1916-STANDING-L...em19bf746fc2

I think a small slabber could make some good money slabbing genuine Type Is and last digit partial date pre-1925 Type IIs. Since they can all be positively identified it should be good enough for trade. Let the free market decide.
Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How do you know anacs didn't run it under a 20x loop and see a partial outline of a 6
not visable to the human eye.

the guys comments on the bottom have nothing to do with how it was graded unless he was the grader
The discription does not say anything but damaged,cleaned.

Let the "free market decide" , thats great if the free market covers your slabbing cost if it does not then your outta luck


Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts
 Posted 12/21/2010  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
so ICG misgraded that 17 for a 16 ?

Yet your telling me that's who you would send a dateless 16 to ?
what if they claim its a 17 ?

Also what a POOR graded 16 worth ?

Sure they are on eBay does anyone purchase them?

The grade books show G3 readable date $2900
Most other coins the value drops a huge amount as the grade falls
with a partial date by 1/2 value usually Average with a worn first or last digit , then agian by half when down Fair with to 2 readable digits , But no readable digits would be Poor esp if the head,shield are worn so bad you cant make out its a 16 with out a huge forensic scientific effort to decipher its details

Edited by coppertop5150
12/21/2010 9:40 pm
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Coin Community Member eBay Sales

Ending Soon   Newly Listed   Lowest Price   Highest Price   Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2018 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2018 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.92 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05