Counterfeit Forums Locked

Are you seriously telling me that ebay allows counterfeits to be sold?!!

Isn't that illegal?

Bobby, if the counterfeit forum is locked, I assume the proper place to discuss collectible contemporary counterfeits (like hennings, micro o morgans, ect) in the Modern Coin and Classic Coin forums?
-XoG

cladking You asked:




You got the answer


That is not correct. The rules of ebay prohibit the sale of counterfeits, replicas etc., etc.. They choose not to enforce those rules against the big money sellers. They will however hit the little guy who clearly indicates he is selling a legal to own counterfeit because he properly describes what he is selling.

Purveyors of FRAUD (the Chinese ring and re-sellers) will never be stopped by ebay.

ANA rules do NOT prohibit sales of "counterfeit coins per se" they were written to prevent fraud. They do not prohibit the sale of demonetized (not current money) issues of countries other than the US that were counterfeit at one time but which were made before 1973 - were in the US before that date - and which are properly described for sale as not being genuine.

Are counterfeits illegal - the answer is it depends.

The 1913 V nickel is a counterfeit. Somehow not illegal?
Machin Mills colonial Half Cents are counterfeits. LEGAL.
Evasion British issues are counterfeit. LEGAL
Henning nickels are counterfeits - and are ILLEGAL.
Micro-O Morgan dollars are counterfeits and are ILLEGAL.
Brass copies of Bechtler gold coins are counterfeits. LEGAL
Even the 1804 US dollar (the king of US coins) minted in 1836 without being monetized is a technical counterfeit but far from illegal.

Coins of Mexico (eight reales and other silver coins) were all counterfeited at the time they were monetized in the US and they circulated alongside genuine coins. These were demonetized by act of Congress in 1857 and at that point CEASED being counterfeits as defined by the law. In 1873 the mint act made a specific change in counterfeit statutes to exempt the coining of old Mexican dollars (and other foreign coins) from being covered by counterfeiting statutes as long as they were not circulating legal tender. Fraud being perpetrated against the Chinese did not seem to count.

So there are many series of non-US coins for which counterfeits are perfectly legal to own, buy, and sell. The only illegal act would be to sell one without warning of what it really is. That would be FRAUD.

Manufacture and importing replicas, copies, forgeries, counterfeits etc. of all coins and coin like objects made AFTER 1973 which do not carry the word COPY stamped prominently into them are illegal under the consumer protection statute known as the Hobby Protection Act.

So the correct answers to your questions would be

Yes for ebay and PERHAPS - depending on the circumstances for the legal status of selling counterfeit coins.

Well thank you to bobby and all the good people that put days and weeks and months and years into this. ebay has sure put the clown back in circus, if that's even a thing.

cladking Never assume that any posting on ebay is a guarantee of anything. There is no one at ebay that is an expert at anything any longer. The motto of ebay is "Let the buyer beware."

Are the authorities looking the other way? A better way to say it is they do not care to look at all.

Selling anything with a deceptive intent is fraud - a genuine cleaned coin where no mention is made of cleaning is FRAUD. Selling a coin that has had a hole plugged without specifically mentioning the hole is FRAUD. Fraud does extend to collusive partnerships and shill bidding but that is rampant.

The Cuban embargo issue was plain stupid because ebay included coins made before the embargo existed and even coins that were struck at the Philadelphia mint. But it satisfied the politicians and other politically correct idiots.

XavierOfGreen You say:


That depends on where you are located. China allows counterfeiting of coins of all other countries without sanction.

In the US counterfeiting covers all legal tender issues EVER made by the US government with the single exception of the Half Cent which was demonetized in 1857.

You also say:



I have gotten different legal opinions on that subject. But they are usually related to seizure. Technically the possession of counterfeits of monetized US coins or counterfeiting tools is simply put illegal under all circumstances PERIOD. It is not necessary to prove the formed intent to defraud. Is it enforced? No! but it could be if the right party got ticked off at you.

It is safer IMO to collect counterfeits of non-US coins because opinion is closer to unanimous on that topic. They are legal to possess.

The only US counterfeits I care for at all are non-circulating types like Bust Half dollars and silver Three Cent pieces. I did keep my first Henning nickel that I found in change about 1960. But I absolutely limit myself when it comes to buying large numbers of US counterfeits. If I get them, I study and photograph them and pass them along to other collectors (who do collect them).

It is a potentially risky situation.