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New Theodosius

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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 12/14/2011  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone makes mistake, even the best. TBH I'm often amazed traders attribute coins worth less than $50 to a RIC number anyway. It can take an hour to ID a coin, find a RIC No and then confirm it by checking all of the details. Time is money to traders!
Edited by bobbyhelmet
12/14/2011 12:38 pm
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Archraz's Avatar
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 Posted 12/14/2011  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I have shot an email to Rasiel, the owner, in order to see what he thinks about the matter. I hope that he responds.
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Archraz's Avatar
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 Posted 12/15/2011  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone, so I asked Rasiel, and he replied. Here is his response:
"The difference between the two rests on the third letter of the exergue. If N it is 45b for the mint of Nicomedia, if H then it is Heraclea. Although not perfectly clear, in this case you can see from the image that the middle bar in the letter does not slant but is laid horizontally. In addition, the last letter seems to be a B, an officina seemingly not active at this mint for this issue."

So do you guys agree?
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 12/15/2011  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does look like it might be an H rather than N, you can probably tell better with the coin in hand. If it is an H than it is RIC IX 26b.2 Heraclea. Helvetica & Wildwinds doesn't list this coin, but I was able to find a reference in ERIC II (his book) but no rarity indicated. So no way to tell value at this point.
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 Posted 12/15/2011  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope everyone understands that every mint in RIC starts over with #1 so low numbers like 26 are quite likely to occur for each mint. In this case RIC 26 page 198 is a coin of Heraclea while RIC 26 page 246 is the same basic type from Cyzicus. Nicomedia had more coins in this period so this particular type doesn't come up until #45 which is listed on page 262. RIC is a scholarly work, not a catalog for coin collectors. They list 48 (page 263) as part of the next issue (seventh period) but note that the coins can not be distinguished from #45. The difference is that in the seventh period he was accompanied in rule by both his sons following the death of Valentinian II. In period six there were no coins of Honorius but there were for Arcadius. How do you tell which coins were made this week and which last week? You don't.

It was a mere accident that #26 was the same coin for Heraclea and Cyzicus but this would cause no problem if everyone would quote the page number and/or the mint name when using RIC numbers starting with Volume VI when the RIC authors decided to start renumbering with each mint city. I wish they didn't do that but they did. I read the OP coin as H for Heraclea so the quote to RIC 26b is correct. 2 is the obverse legend reading THEODO-SIUS while 26a is a coin of Valentinian and 26c is Arcadius. It is redundant to say 26a1, 26b2 or 26c3. In this case RIC even numbers the workshops so you could say the OP coin is actually 26b2,2 but this already passed ridiculous so lets not.

Of the three mints discussed here, only Heraclea had no symbol in the left field. If you insist Raisel is wrong saying the letter is an H rather than an N then you have to explain (corroded away) the lack of one of three choices for this symbol. The Cyzicus mint examples all have the cross-rho symbol as shown on my photo below of an RIC 26b2 page 246 Cyzicus.


New-Theodosius

The problem here is that the last letter of my coin has to be alpha, beta, gamma or delta. I suppose it is a damaged beta but some might read it as an S which is not a possible choice from this four shop mint. These little coins often have a few letters that are hard to read so I'm not even close to claiming a new discovery here. It is just a defective letter on an imperfect coin. ...or does someone see where I have misidentified the coin? This is not something I really collect.

Regarding bobbyhelmet's question why a dealer would bother with an RIC number for a cheap coin: This 'look up' would take a skilled and experienced dealer a minute, not 30. If spending a minute allows you to sell a $10 coin for $30, I'd say it was worth the effort. In this case I'd say the 'very reputable dealer' factor was at least half of the value of the transaction. Raisel is both knowledgeable and reputable not to mention having furthered the hobby with his books. Perhaps we should not be too rough in allowing him a return on his investment in all of our educations.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
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 Posted 12/15/2011  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well - I'll bow to Raisels experience on this. I don't think I would bet the farm on the last letters of the mintmark being 'HB' over 'NA' though. Maybe I would bet more than half the farm though! Must admit I missed the 'Heraclea mint' part on Archrazs first post so went off in the wrong direction when I found the number under Cyzicus.


Quote:
I was able to find a reference in ERIC II (his book) but no rarity indicated. So no way to tell value at this point


RIC lists it as 'R'.


Quote:
Of the three mints discussed here, only Heraclea had no symbol in the left field. If you insist Raisel is wrong saying the letter is an H rather than an N then you have to explain (corroded away) the lack of one of three choices for this symbol.


I think if you double check there is one coin for each number (Nicomedia 45b(p262)/48b(p263)) that does not bear a left field mark?
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Archraz's Avatar
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 Posted 12/16/2011  01:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input, everyone. So, ultimately, my question is what do you guys think that it is worth? I'm just really curious since Raisel also appraised it for $50, which is kind of interesting given the fact that he sold the coin for $30. So what do you guys think is realistic for this coin?
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Bing's Avatar
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4253 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like your coin. I have been sitting by and reading the posts with great interest, but not having a lot to add to the conversation. If you paid $30 you got a very fair price for this coin. The obverse is in very good condition while the reverse is in OK condition and better than most. This particular coin sells for north of $50 by most dealers. Take a look at this link: http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=241337. This coin is selling for $75 and is in similar condition both obverse and reverse. IMHO you did well.
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Archraz's Avatar
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3499 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jwharper- Thanks for the input! I'm glad to hear that this coin is not incredibly common and has a bit of value.
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echizento's Avatar
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23731 Posts
 Posted 12/16/2011  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to check my lot of these to see if the CHI-RHO is present or not. Never noticed the difference. Learn something new every day. Glad that your coin turned out to be a rarer example and that you got it for a good price.
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