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Constantinopolis City Commemorative - Alexandria

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 Posted 01/29/2012  01:38 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Was going to post this along with my other birthday coins (most arrived, still waiting on a few), but I'm a little skeptical about the authenticity of this one. Mostly because of the surface texture and kind of crude-ish detail, but also the poor quality of the letters (especially the S's, which look like I's). Also, I'm not sure if the mintmark is SMALA, or SMALR (is this a known MM for Alexandria?). The last letter looks more like an "R" to me than an A in hand (but strangely in the photos I've taken it looks a little more like an A). What are your thoughts on my coin? BTW if it's real, this would be my first coin from Alexandria.
Constantinopolis-City-Commemorative---Alexandria
(at slight angle to show texture)

Constantinopolis-City-Commemorative---Alexandria
(more direct)

It is 17 mm (but I have nothing to weigh it with unfortunately)
Edited by VisigothKing
01/29/2012 01:48 am
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 Posted 01/29/2012  01:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Biancasdad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Valian,

Looks real to me. I think the mint mark is more likely SMALB.

Regards,

-Kurt

EDIT: There were four workshops at Alexandria that minted this commemorative, however, the third workshop (Greek gamma) wouldn't look like a normal capital "R". Also, I have read other discussions on the topic of "morphing" whereas the metal that physically makes up the letters on ancient coins over time seemingly changes enough to make letters appear remarkably different then when initially struck, which may account for the "S" not quite looking normal.

Edited by Biancasdad
01/29/2012 02:04 am
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2012  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree the coin is real, and from what I can see the MM is SMALB.
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 Posted 01/29/2012  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The letters have suffered a little corrosion over time but I agree, it's definitely Alexandria and SMALB.

I know that the 3rd gamma and 4th delta officinas are listed for this mint but I have never seen one nor seen a photograph of either one.
If anyone knows the location of a photo of either one on the net let me know.

ValiantKnight your Constantinopolis is quite attractive with original patina.
Edited by Doucet
01/29/2012 12:44 pm
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 Posted 01/29/2012  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Biancasdad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doucet,

I did find a picture of one with "delta" in exergue. Also, there are two examples as well with "gamma" in exergue, however, they are the type with S-R in the fields.

http://coinproject.com/mint_coin_li...t=Alexandria

Regards,

-Kurt
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 Posted 01/29/2012  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Kurt,

It's always nice to know what your looking for when your looking for something.

I think it's hard to tell between the delta and A officinas, they look quite similar, but it maybe with a little study one could spot the difference between the two in the style of Nike or Constantinopolis on the obv.

regards
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 Posted 01/29/2012  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Biancasdad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your welcome Doucet.

I agree, with the advent of MM's and officinae you really need to know your ABC's, or should I say your ABgamma's

BTW, is there a way to insert Greek letters in the text of these threads?

Regards,

-Kurt
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 Posted 01/29/2012  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for putting my worry to rest guys! And for helping me with the MM. BTW I did some searching and found one very similar to mine. It even has the corroded letters: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/ga...m=1902&pos=1

Also, does the patina on my coin have a name, like with Syrian Red and desert?
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 Posted 01/29/2012  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I feel as if I should know this by now, but would 18 mm (it's not 17mm; I re-measured it) be follis or small follis?
Edited by VisigothKing
01/29/2012 7:38 pm
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 Posted 01/29/2012  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
would 18 mm (it's not 17mm; I re-measured it) be follis or small follis?


Helvetia's excel sheet of Constantinopolis types http://www.catbikes.ch/coinstuff/coins-ric.htm uses the terms follis and small follis, but there is no real definition that I can find. I think that 15-16mm might be small and 17-18 a follis.

Doug Smith talks about this some on his website http://dougsmith.ancients.info/voc5.html and refers to follis as being more accurately used for Byzantine coins, and that Late Roman coin such as these Constantinopolis types are better refered to as:
AE1 = over 25mm
AE2 = 21 - 25mm
AE3 = 17 - 21mm
AE4 = under 17mm

I have a number of this type and most are 17-18mm but there are some that are 15.5-16mm and a couple at 19.5mm. Sometimes they are even smaller than 15mm and were struck, in my opinion, on a too small flan because parts or all of the legends and mint marks are missing from the edges. Maybe this is what they mean by 'small module' I'm not sure.

Regards
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 Posted 01/30/2012  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks doucet. So would it be safe to say that my coin is either RIC VII 64 or 71?
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