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 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,651 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
This coin is a much tougher year than most (even dealers) might expect. It's usually not available in most inventories. It's also one of my favorite and most studied series.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
I would say F-12 and possibly cleaned?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3234 Posts |
No...never cleaned. The dove gray surface are completely original. If it was (improperly) cleaned you'd see a series of marks across the cheek, the highest point on the coin. The tiny darker areas are just toning.
Also, when you start taking a look around at 3CN as a series and the various dates and how they were struck, you'll realize that F12 is quite the undergrade for this piece. I'll reveal my grade estimate in a few days with an explanation based on observations across the series.
Edited by Prethen
01/30/2007 08:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
Ok great, I will look forward to learning. It sure looks like a F-12 in my Photograde with less than one third of the hair detail showing. The Roman Numeral Three looks like a weak strike to me, rather than wear. The reason I wondered about cleaning was the residual dark areas hugging the high relief. Always seemed to me that toning would affect other areas of the coin as well unless it had been cleaned, but that probably isn't always true. My type example of this coin is a VF-20 1881. It has more hair detail and the reverse is sharper, but maybe some years had weaker strikes?
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
I see it as a strong F12. Even with the roman numeral being a weak strike, the beading on the coronet is worn. I also see considerable wear in the hairlines. I agree that the roman numeral is definitely the result of a weak strike.
I looked in my books for the particular date and didn't find anything that stood out (except for the fact that the mintage numbers were getting low in the series by this year.)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
I'll give you all a hint...these coins can almost be completely graded by the cheek. Not entirely graded on the cheek, but close. Sometimes due to strike that's the only real way to grade these guys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
891 Posts |
I see this as a weak strike. I say xf maybe au. Then again I might be talking out the side of my neck. I would think there would be more wear on the rims if it was lower. I really don't see that much wear.
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Valued Member
United States
156 Posts |
I say a low AU and looks as if it has been cleasned but by a pro like NCS........but never go by what I say cuz my indian name is Foot-In-Mouth
Edited by coldshot
02/01/2007 10:17 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
Prethen, I am responding to this to make it easy to track. I have just bought one of these and am interested in learning more from you about the grading. Thx Jim
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
Okay, Prethen, looking only at the cheek, I'm going to give a grade opinion and will probably end up looking like an idiot. I don't see any rub or wear on the cheek. Normally, in pics, worn areas look darker or at least different in color than the rest of the coin. I am putting all of this into my response to justify my grade opinion. I'm going to say that this is an uncirculated coin. As far as what grade above 60 this coin would be, I don't know. I have never understood seeing MS65 coins that don't have a full strike, so I can't go beyond saying that it is uncirculated. Now, don't laugh at me for this opinion...   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
Okay....you guys have come full circle on this one. It's a great study coin for the series. First of all, in my honest opinion, I don't believe it has been messed with at all (at least not in any sort of damaging manner that I could tell). Second, the tiny dark areas you see are basically toning spots. I'm not a huge fan of those, but hey, it is what it is and it really doesn't detract from the rest of the coin, especially when in hand.
The grade? I grade this an XF40+. It has a choice XF look as far as wear goes, but it has no "pop" or remaining luster that would place it into the technical choice category. I still would probably sell it for choice money one day because of the original, perfect surfaces of the coin.
Susan, what you probably missed and it's pretty much the fault of the scan, is that the cheek is somewhat flattened by rub (if you take a second look, you'll see a slight discoloration).
Southern Yankee, congratulations on noticing an aspect of the coin that many overlook....the rims! Those rims look great with minimal wear and the dentils are strong.
These coins are notoriously weakly struck, some years more frequently than others, but 1875 is a major culprit for weak strike. It's very difficult to find a nice version of the coin where say the leaves in the upper right area of the reverse are struck up much at all. The hair is many times poorly struck and sometimes the vertical lines in the "III" are weakly struck.
I'll post a couple more examples of others (same year!) here.
Edited by Prethen
02/01/2007 3:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3234 Posts |
Here's a nice VF  Here's an NGC XF40 (I consider this an XF45 poser)   Finally, here's a choice AU that has GREAT detail!:   |
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,651 |
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Posted 01/29/2007 10:39 pm
