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Artificially Toned Morgans On The Bay - Shady Practice?

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Valued Member

United States
120 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  4:22 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add markn984 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
So this seller seems to have a business of artificially toning Morgans and selling them on ebay. However, all the seller does is list "AT" in the title and description.

The seller also states "My coins are a fairly inexpensive alternative to the very expensive similarly colored graded coins, I GUARANTEE THEM TO BE GENUINE." So, a genuine chemically altered coin. Sweet.

My guess is buyers interpret the above to mean an alternative to slabbed toned coin, not raw naturally toned coin.

Does anyone else think this seller is deliberately trying to mislead buyers? I can't imagine paying double market value for a coin that's been ruined.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1885-P-Morg..._2102wt_1165

Valued Member
hermanwilliams's Avatar
United States
309 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hermanwilliams to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I commend the fact that he puts "AT" on his postings. Buyers should educate themselves to the meaning of this before bidding on his coins.
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Scropper's Avatar
United States
702 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure where I stand on this. In the end, it's "buyer beware" but all that "AT" does it tell the people that know what they're doing to stay away. It's not entirely genuine for inexperienced buyers.

Then again, the seller does take on a 14-day return, which is plenty of time for people to have buyer's remorse and cancel or return the sale.

It's ALMOST as fair as you could get for doing something most serious collectors frown upon.

At least he's not trying to charge hundreds or thousands of dollars. The price is about fair, I guess, and if you want to remove the toning and start over, you can.
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BuffaloBonehead's Avatar
United States
333 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuffaloBonehead to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a ruinous and destructive process done for selfish reasons without respect to the hobby. If the seller really wanted to be honest, the ad would read "artificially toned," not a shortened version designed to fool the uninformed.

Thankfully my Morgans will only appreciate in value as more of the higher grade common dates are ruined by these guys.
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schnauzer's Avatar
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add schnauzer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This seller has been selling artifically toned coins for a long, long time. It hasn't been that long though that he has been putting AT in the listing. I think he's given up on tinkering with any more and is trying to dump his inventory. Which will probably take some major time if his inventory is huge and my guess is that it's very huge.
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ZiggyZ's Avatar
United States
162 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  11:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ZiggyZ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Still deceptive - Looking at his feedback he used to maintain that the toning was real, and my guess is he was forced to change his listings after a disgruntled buyer complained (rightfully). Since he never explains what AT means, he may be within the letter of the law, but certainly not the spirit, and is absolutely trying to take advantage of ignorant buyers.
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I guess, and if you want to remove the toning and start over, you can.


I'm not clear on this. Will acetone remove AT, or is it a more involved process to get rid of it?
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  12:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If the seller really wanted to be honest, the ad would read "artificially toned,"


My feeling is that it should read "artificially toned" (as you wrote), or "chemically altered". After all, if it was naturally toned, I doubt the seller would just discretely write "NT".

But I'm a bit of a newb, hence the post for comments.
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Scropper's Avatar
United States
702 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scropper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe a light acetone dip will remove most forms of AT.
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  01:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My stance on this has been well stated. I hate the term Artificial toning. Purposeful toning is more accurate. That aside...

I have purchased coins from this seller. They are quite beautiful in my opinion. I have absolutely no issue with his coins. Nor do I have any problem with his listings. And using AT in the title instead of spelling out artificial toning. Give it a break. Using AT is not being deceptive. It is no different than saying BU or AU or any other acronym used in the hobby. Saying it is meant to mislead newbies is ridiculous. If someone buys ANYTHING and does not understand the entire listing, they are simply foolish and stupid.

If you want to argue that its damaging coins, thats fine. I see the point, but dont necessarily agree. And if you dont like the look of them, again, thats fine for you. But that doesn't mean you need to go after those that do like these coins.
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  01:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But that doesn't mean you need to go after those that do like these coins.


Not at all. I'm actually trying to understand if a market exists for AT (artificially toned to you newbs) coins. Specifically, when I saw that some people are paying twice FMV for a coin that has been chemically altered, I became quite curious.

What premium do you feel artificial...erm...chemically altered...erm...purposely toned coins should get?

Also, should the seller remove the "AT" designation and replace it with a "PT" designation, which would only (and perhaps purposely) confuse more bidders?


Quote:
If someone buys ANYTHING and does not understand the entire listing, they are simply foolish and stupid.


And yet, if the seller actually spelled it out, his auctions would crash. You'd then get his coins for a song, because all the "foolish and stupid" would stop driving up the bid.
Valued Member
United States
223 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add COMET to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen many of this seller's auctions end at a high price. Personally I don't understand why anyone would buy AT coins unless they don't know what AT is. You can get NT coins that are toned to a lesser degree at cheaper prices, and they're not considered damaged or altered.
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  01:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Personally I don't understand why anyone would buy AT coins unless they don't know what AT is.


That is exactly why I posted this. I'm a real novice, and just trying to understand the collecting community/market.

This jumped out at me as an anomaly, and I want to understand it.
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ZiggyZ's Avatar
United States
162 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ZiggyZ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have a problem with what he's selling, just how he's selling it. Whether you fully understand what is meant by "AT" is beside the point, and it is in no way analogous to BU or AU. They are industry-wide abbreviations to save space, and in fact they are often written out fully in the item description. There is no reason not to. This seller is never going to expound on what AT means in the listing, because he makes money by obscuring the truth.
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  02:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't have a problem with what he's selling, just how he's selling it.


I agree 100%. If it was billed as "artificially toned" or "chemically altered" I would have never started this thread.
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  02:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think silverhawk bought a couple, knowing they were AT. I PMed him to see if he'll chime in.
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