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How Much Will Cleaning A Coin Lower Its Grade?

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Pillar of the Community

Sweden
729 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  03:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add epikur to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Suppose I have an XF-40 rare Morgan dollar.

And it has been cleaned, not with steel wool or something like that, but just a bit of polishing.

How much will the grading be lowered but this cleaning process?

Will the rarity of the coin make it keep the value more than if it was a common morgan?

thanks
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds like a hypothetical question that has a firm basis in reality.
EVERY coin that has been cleaned, needs to be examined and assessed on it's individual merits, to find to extent of damage caused by the cleaning.

Expect to loose anywhere from 5% to 50% of the value by the use of non abrasive cleaning.

Some ancient coins HAVE to be cleaned, after being dug up, just to enable identification!
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mitchhailey's Avatar
United States
1150 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  04:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mitchhailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All things being equal, a cleaned 1893-S will retain more of its value than a cleaned 1921. I can find uncleaned 1921s all day so I'd pay almost nothing for a cleaned one, where as if all I can find for sale is a cleaned '93-S I'd pay full retail, maybe more, even if cleaned.

That being said, there are different types of cleanings and some, as you noted, are harsher than others. On any coin light dips, if even noticeable by a TPG, will decrease value less than a whizzing would.

It just depends on the coin, grade, cleaning method and potential buyers (since a coin is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it).
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  06:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It may or may not change the grade, as mentioned in previous posts, it will lower the value no matter what, even a lightly cleaned coin being cleaned more is not a good thing. Conservation on the other hand can be benificial for a coins health, but leave that to an expert, I've been handling coins for a few decades now, both as a collector and as a dealer, and I have a lot of experience, but beyond basic stuff like acetone baths, I don't even mess with coins myself, it's a pretty specialized field and only a few people are really good at it and know what they are doing.

For conservation of a rare coin see http://www.ncscoin.com/ they are the only company that is doing conservation/cleaning on a level that is acceptable to collectors, it's not exactly cheap, but you get what you pay for, and even NCS can't conserve every coin they receive, each one will get a different method of treatment.
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See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  06:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, the article does not reveal HOW the coins were cleaned.
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XavierOfGreen's Avatar
United States
2589 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add XavierOfGreen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cleaning will not lower the value on ultra rarities, for example the lowest grade 1913 nickel would be worth the same cleaned or uncleaned. The same with the 1870 S three dollar gold coin. The only other time where cleaning will not affect value is for low grade bullion coins which are traded for their metal content and not their appearance. For example a low grade cleaned common date franklin will go for the same price as one that hasn't been cleaned. But besides those two exceptions cleaning a coin will nearly always result in a substantial decrease in value.
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cjtm92's Avatar
United States
140 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cjtm92 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Cleaning will not lower the value on ultra rarities, for example the lowest grade 1913 nickel would be worth the same cleaned or uncleaned


That is true, only because you are talking about a G-4 or lower. If the grade was around, say, AU-55, expect the coin to worth around EF-40. That's also presuming it wasn't a poor cleaning.

To determine the worth really does depend on so many things. The rarity of the coin, whether it's been placed in a holder or not, the extent of the cleaning, what cleaning method was used, chemical, buffing, polishing, etcetera.

As far as the grade goes, it will remain the same grade, but as you probably know the two main grading companies don't even give cleaned coins a net grade.

Will a rare clean Morgan be worth more than a common date? More than likely, but that too comes with some 'buts'. If you have a really nice 1881-S and a not-so-decent cleaned 1885-CC, the '85-CC will be worth more almost any day of the week. Did you have a specific coin in mind?


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BuffaloNuts's Avatar
United States
57 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuffaloNuts to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Suppose you had a cleaned Morgan, that looks like someone took silver polish to. Could you, by carring it in your pocket, be able to remove all evidence of the cleaning? I realize that this would lower the grade, but I can't stand the shiny thing as it is...
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MorganDude26's Avatar
United States
206 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganDude26 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What date?
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muddler's Avatar
United States
7189 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  4:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have carried two silver dollars as pocket pieces for several years, one Morgan and one peace. they both are bright white and have a cleaned look to them even tho they have not been cleaned just spending years in my pockets.
Valued Member
United States
223 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  11:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add COMET to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It all depends on the cleaning. Most coins when cleaned will lose significant value, even key date coins. The only exception would be if its an ultra rare coin. There are also certain levels of cleaning, I think the lightest form would be dipping the coin. And the harshest would be to polish it.
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2012  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was foolish enough during my first days buying silver to think that cleaning was fine. I can see no damage so it is all good right? Wrong, use a 10X loupe and enjoy the 1000's of micro scratches you just ruined the coin with....

I notice nice graded coins where the seller who knows his coins claims it has been cleaned before being slabbed, but due to decent grade and real nice color toning or key date it still brought big money and the cleaning was irrelevant.....

So there are always exceptions to the general rule IMO....

If I buy a Morgan in a belt buckle, I would buy as scrap silver an not as a Morgan silver dollar. As to say it no longer has any numismatic value. However, often these belt buckles were never worn and just set collecting dust forgotten in a drawer for 35 years (protected an in-cased acquiring no wear) until someone found an realized it had value. They can be removed in some cases an turn out to have no damage an still list as BU perhaps, or so I have heard.....
Edited by Silverhawk74
04/04/2012 12:23 am
Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2012  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epikur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for all the info people, great advice and posts in general

epikur
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