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Major TPG Grading Standards (PCGS NGC ANACS)

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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 04/24/2012  11:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Does anyone know what the major graders policies are on grading?

What I mean by this is do they grade every coin absolutely as they see fit or if they have already graded a lot of 70s will they be more likely to grade coins a 69 that could be 70s to keep the populations at each grade at a certain level?
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SeatedNut's Avatar
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 Posted 04/25/2012  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No we don't and we can't make any sense of it! That's probably the most accurate response I can provide to your question.

As a collecting community we would appreciate consistency in the process. Unfortunately (or possibly fortunately) they employ humans to do this task. They are seasoned professionals, but everyone has their off day, or they are subject to external influences. It's all subjective when their mood or externals affect the outcome. This is reality and explains why some coins are loved; some dealers get a pass; or a particular day of the week is the best to get the highest grade.

In a perfect world they would be objective every day and with every coin. Viewing the results confirms this is not the case.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
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 Posted 04/25/2012  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only "official" (note quotes) grading standards are those the ANA publishes in "The Official American Numismatic Association Grading Standards for United States coins" published by Whitman (I believe the latest is 6th edition).

TPGs tend to use this as a guide, but have developed their own subset of standards (I almost said "substandards" -- oops :-)) that they rely upon more heavily and standards do change slowly over time.

Much of grading is subjective. It is an art (qualitative), not a science (quantitative) and especially so at MS grades. Similarly, much of the "one TPG is better than another" or differences in grading standards between the big 4 is a matter of opinion and reputation rather than quantitative fact.

As I've said before, I'd love to see an ISO standard proposed for grading. However, with the squabbling that would ensue, I would not hold my breath. :-)
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cjtm92's Avatar
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 Posted 04/25/2012  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cjtm92 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SeatedNut is right, there is very little consistency when it comes to grading, especially when it comes to higher graded coins. We'll use Silver Eagles as an example. Finding a common date MS-70 ASE is fairly easy and it won't cost you all that much money. Now we take the key date, 1995-W and you'll be hard pressed to find one graded MS-70 (a roughly $10,000 coin). One graded 69 won't be too difficult and it costs around $3,200 for the coin.

There are a lot of theories as to why that is; keeping the population low to make that grade an ultra-rarity, whether or not the company has a 'Arm's Length Policy', being paid off to grade a certain grade, etc.

Then you also get cases where it's a coin that isn't super rare, and the difference of one point from one particular grade to another is, say, $75. If you sent that coin in 5 times to the same TPG, I guarantee you'll get at least 2 different, possibly 3 different results. I've talked to someone who used to grade coins at a coin show and he told me himself how little things like being tired have affected his gradings.

I could go on and on and get more into it, but there's really just so much that goes on, simply because it's more of a politics and luck game than a coin collecting hobby when TPG's get involved. That's why it's important for us coin collectors to get involved with each other and learn about coins through each other so we can make smart purchases.

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265 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2012  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is just a matter of opinion. To me, there is no doubt that PCGS and NGC grade according to market keeping the ms70's and 69's low. I also believe that ANACS and ICG grade very technically to ANA standards. I also think that ANACS has become a lot more stringent in their grading over the past several years as has ICG. I also do believe that high volume dealers also will get the pass from a ms62 to a 63 or a 64 to a 65.
I have had a PCGS and NGC memberships for years til I let them expire a few years ago since I became quite happy with the grading from ANACS and ICG. But if you are collecting to invest and flip everyone here will tell you to stay with PCGS and NGC. I I've in the Tampa area and therefore have used ICG almost exclusively now and have never had a problem with them. They have been criticized for giving out to many 69's and 70's to modern coins. Well from my perspective that makes a lot of sense if thay are grading technically. Modern times have seen th eminting processes become more and more refined. Your modern coins should look perfect. Everyone here I am sure has seen a coin or examined a coin under 10-20x and a coin looked great but received a 68 or 69. Well I am sure if you put that coin under 50x you will see something
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 04/30/2012  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dom I tend to agree with that assessment from my experiences so far. I'm not an expert on grading, but I sent a coin in that looked amazing and I was sure it was perfect. Came back a 68, next day I see some coins at a store that were slabbed as 70s and from the label looked like they came out of a large lot early on and theres just no way someone could say there was more eye appeal to that coin than the one I sent in.

I sent it in the cheapest slowest service which has left me wondering if I would have gotten a more favorable grade with a more expensive quicker grading time to encourage people to use that instead.
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vermontensium's Avatar
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 Posted 04/30/2012  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Given the fact that each grader looks at a coin for an average of 10 seconds or less, one can form their own conclusions on subjectiveness.


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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2012  6:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
venom very true. Gotta have the fingers crossed you catch them on a happy day.

Ive pretty much come to the conclusion thats its cheaper and easier to build a perfect set for the newer coins just buying already slabbed
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