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 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,833 |
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Valued Member
United States
227 Posts |
Found this on ebay, what would you grade it? The listing has a lot of time left but I thought I'd get a second opinion ahead of time.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1431 Posts |
I'm no expert, but it looks as if it might have been dipped.
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Valued Member
 United States
227 Posts |
And why is that? Edit: Is it the case with all coins that look this "white" that they've probably been dipped? I'm noticing that trend in responses (not just here at CCF I mean), but haven't really heard anyone explicitly say that. Edit2: I just caught a subtle detail in this guy's listings.... in the other *certified* coins that he's selling he says in big font and different color "I guarantee it to be original". In all the other listings of raw coins, like this one, he says "I guarantee authentic, this coin looks original". Kind of like a "genuine" grade... its authentic but maybe not original, ie cleaned. He might just be doing that to protect himself and not necessarily be cognizant of whether it was cleaned (or have cleaned it himself), but I still have to wonder why its not in a holder if its a high grade coin - regardless of its dollar value. I asked him a question about a mark on one of his other coins and he said "There are marks on the coin and the holder. Also this used to be in an ANACS MS62 holder." So he cracked the coin out of a slab to sell it uncertified? that doesn't make any sense to me, even if ANACS isn't the favorite TPG, its still better than uncertified. To me it almost sounds like he cracked it out to clean it and make it look better in pictures. I might ask him about that. Edited by donkrx
05/14/2012 9:28 pm
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Valued Member
United States
309 Posts |
He may have cracked it to put in an album, at least I would imagine that is what he is going to say.
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Valued Member
United States
227 Posts |
I asked him why he cracked it because I'm interested to hear how he tackles that question.
Edited by donkrx
05/14/2012 11:16 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
Numismedia indicates $680 for MS64FH & $1410 for MS65FH (which this coin could easily be a 66FH. Look at the shield! If this was a coin that was good to go....it would be in a slab. I don't know what the price is at right now, as I don't ever use ebay. There is no way somebody would sell this coin, in that condition, without it being slabbed. Run Forest......RUN! :) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Might go MS63 today, looks nice, the color is coming back or it was a very light dip, done properly. Didn't affect the coin in my eyes.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Valued Member
United States
227 Posts |
Yeah I agree about it not making sense to be sold uncertified. It makes even less sense that he cracked it out of a slab, I mean honestly if he is stupid enough to tell me that........
Anyway, I would appreciate anyone commenting on specifically why it looks dipped to you. If it looks "off", what should it look like?
I did a lot of looking at pictures when it hit me to check PCGS's photograde library for refrence points. Now I see that it looks way too white. Also, I think the "IN GOD WE TRUST" might be to dull given the lack of wear. Am I on the right track here?
I've spent awhile looking online for examples of "expertly" dipped coins. All I've come across are the bluntly-obvious examples with streaks, excessively thinned coins, massively dulled features, or straight up pitting and corrosion. Needless to say, those pictures haven't taught me much. So if you have anything you can give me here I would really appreciate it.... sorry if this is really obvious to most of you.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
I don't think that it is a full head like the seller claims...it's really nice though. I would say MS-62 sounds about right, maybe a 63. I would ask to see the slab insert as well. Any coin that I crack out of it's slab (ands there not too many of them) I keep the information insert.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
987 Posts |
I don't see anything holding this coin back from being MS-65-66. Not sure about FH. Borderline FH anyways. As far as being dipped, it looks original to me but very well could have had a dip. If it's done properly it's pretty hard to tell.
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Valued Member
United States
54 Posts |
If it was dipped how would that effect the grade? Would it always come back details/genuine?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6385 Posts |
It looks very nice. The head has a spot of flat detail which might disqualify it as FH. Otherwise the strike looks very strong. Check out the beading around the obverse rim! That feature almost never looks this sharp. The date is also very strong.
The coin appears to have been photographed through the plastic of the 2X2 holder which might be altering the color and luster characteristics. Still, it looks like a solid MS coin with excellent strike, strong luster, and no significant hits. I could see someone cracking the coin out of a holder if they wanted to put in in an album; if the other coins in the album match this one it would be one heckuva SLQ collection!
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Valued Member
United States
227 Posts |
Homerecher, depending on what dip was used and how heavy the damage is, it might not even receive a grade (body bagged). On the other hand it seems that if the dip only serves to remove toning then it is sometimes considered -by the TPG- acceptable. Hence they use the term " improper cleaning" to distinguish between the two. Also on PCGS' website under their grading standards, it explicitly excludes dipping from the definition of "cleaned" (edit: so long as it only removes toning).... just something good to know in general when buying coins. I know most of you guys that have experience know this, I'm just putting that out there for the newbies/lurkers that might benefit from knowing that. Even more reason to remember that you shouldn't just rely on the plastic case. So I'm thinking this coin would probably fall under acceptable cleaning (according to PCGS website)? Quote:
Jaobler "Still, it looks like a solid MS coin with excellent strike, strong luster, and no significant hits. I could see someone cracking the coin out of a holder if they wanted to put in in an album; if the other coins in the album match this one it would be one heckuva SLQ collection!" Yeah he has a lot of them that look great - not quite as good as this, but really clean and strong luster. They would indeed make an amazing collection and I am super nitpicky in general so once I saw it I had to post and ask you guys what you thought. I also agree I do not think it is FH (unless a new pic proves otherwise). Edited by donkrx
05/16/2012 9:10 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
In many cases, a very white silver classic coin is a result of a dip. It is less likely that a 90 year old coin would be stored in a way that would prevent toning for that long....as opposed to a 5 year old silver eagle.
With that said, there are many "dipped" coins in top tier slabs, as long as the dip doesn't significantly eat into the luster or look of the coin. I think this coin could be slabbed, and I would have graded it more like 64-65+ with the booming luster, strong strike and no significant hits. I would prefer a coin like this with more toning, but I still really like this one.
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Valued Member
474 Posts |
I once read somewhere that a good 'rule of thumb' is if a coin has an actual value of more than $100 and it is not in a TPG slab, then there is almost certainly a reason why. So, if I am looking around on ebay (doesn't happen often), I keep that thought in the back of my mind at all times.
 This coin is not in a slab for a reason and any reason the seller has would probably not be good enough to justify this coin not being in a slab.
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Valued Member
United States
227 Posts |
Could someone give me an idea of what COULD be wrong with the coin that is not evident in the pictures?
I dont think anyone suggested anything other than dipping which shouldn't be a problem / no grade unless it was severe (doesn't seem to be). I also dont expect that it was whizzed because the light reflection seems consistent with photo comparisons, and I dont see any evidence of buildup, dulled features, or hairlines. Am I wrong here though?
There's a 14 day return policy and this guy has 100% feedback (0 neg 2 neutral). If I do decide to go for it I'll just take it to my local shop (NGC certified) and see what they think. At worst I return it and its a cheap lesson.
Edited by donkrx
05/19/2012 05:09 am
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,833 |
Posted 05/14/2012 8:53 pm
