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Help With British Pennies

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Coinaholic73's Avatar
United Kingdom
298 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  11:19 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Coinaholic73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have been more of a bullion collector till now and am looking at British pennies 1860-1970 as a small investment that I may look to sell on. I realise the later coins are not worth much and therefore should be relatively cheap to pick up in uncirculated condition.

I'm probably going to start collecting later coins (1967, then the 1970 proof) downwards and 1901 upwards.

My question for the earlier coins (as somewhat of a numismatic noob) is this - what is considered more collectable/desirable?

Both of these were listed for sale as UNC, do buyers prefer them toned or with lustre like the 2nd coin or is it a matter of personal choice?


Help-With-British-Pennies

Help-With-British-Pennies
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36878 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Usually nice coins with original red luster command a higher price. If I were buying for investment or resale, I would pass on the brown piece you show and opt for the full red second coin photo, even at a slightly higher price. On common date coins of any country, quality is the key.
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For an investment and for copper coins, Indian Gold is correct.
However, before you decide you might also want to open a topic
entitled, "How to keep a red - red?"
From what I have read on this Forum, keeping a red from turning
red-brown and finally brown requires a lot of care.
And is not always successful.
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Coinaholic73's Avatar
United Kingdom
298 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinaholic73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, as much lustre as I can get it is then.

Beyond keeping them seperate in airtites & storing with dessicant packs to prevent moisture, what else can you do?
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36878 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keep them as air tight as possible and away from low grade plastics that contain PVC. Sounds like what you have planned is a good idea. Only other thing I would suggest is to send them in to get certified and slabbed. That would also make it easier to sell when the time comes.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Although I agree that a red luster is worth more I personally would be looking for high grade natural looking coins.

This is for a couple of reasons... firstly the ones with that luster will be worth more so they will cost you more; you risk that you lose some of that value if you lose any of the luster in your storage process. The other brown coin you will pay less in purchasing it and not have that liability.

Also it is perfectly natural for a 1901 penny to have that toned appearance, there is nothing wrong with that. The one with luster must have either been kept very carefully or been cleaned up (I am not saying that someone has used brasso on that particular coin but if buying online you run a risk that may be the case)

Which-ever you decide I don't think that these are a great investment unless you buy very shrewdly, the money will be made in the purchasing of these for their value or below their value. If you pay a retail price on them maybe it will take a very long time to recoup that money, and they are so common that you will only get a premium above their value if you have particularly well preserved coins and the rarer dates/mintmarks.

I note that I have many of these coins and some are artificially dark too. It was common practice to put them in oil or some product that darkened them, personally I don't find that unattractive as long as the coin has all its details and no evidence of cleaning.

The reason to collect these coins in my view is because you like and enjoy them, not to get rich... if you want to get rich there are other coins that I believe will perform much better...with less supply and more desirability.

Slabbing is a particularly American thing... as an Englishman I don't think it will help you over here... it will cost you money and might even turn off some buyers this side of the pond.

Just my personal opinion for what it is worth.
Edited by DavidUK
08/19/2012 12:42 pm
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MikeG's Avatar
United Kingdom
128 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That red Victorian penny looks suspicious to me; out of all the hundreds of these Victorian pennies I've seen I've never seen one that colour (looks more like a 2011 penny would look) and I suspect that it's been cleaned. Personally I prefer the toned ones as they look more natural for their age and the red one would look totally out of place in a British collection. Just my opinion.
Mike.
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Coinaholic73's Avatar
United Kingdom
298 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinaholic73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Isn't it funny how people can have different legitimate opinions, thanks for your input everyone.

I wouldn't be getting these to 'get rich' merely as a bit of fun and the hunt of getting the coins and then having something of 'worth' at the end (whether it is worth more or less than what I pay). I totally agree on the slabbing situation, if I were American I wouldn't hesitate to slab because its the culture to do that but for the UK airtites will be enough.

The toned/lustre dilema is more of a problem though. I guess that's down to personal choice though as I see a lot of the post ww2 pennies are available all with good lustre.
Edited by Coinaholic73
08/19/2012 1:06 pm
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36878 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All valid points by the others since there is a different approach to things based on which side of the Atlantic you are on. Personally, I like the full red 1901 you show and the luster looks very normal to me and I would not hesitate buying it. I've handled many of these over the years and do not see anything that flags as recolored or cleaned on this coin. There are a couple dark spots on the veil and some slight browning around the rim, all normal.

I think what you need to consider is, are you buying these for yourself for enjoyment or for an investment. If you are just looking to collect as a hobby, then buy what ever appeals to you. The brown toned pieces might work best for you as there is less chance of it changing color while you hold it. If you are considering investment, then you have to look at what all others prefer as you will want to have a coin that appeals to the largest number of perspective buyers.

Good luck with your collection, and enjoy!
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I personally say go with the brown, the original luster one has been cleaned and the brown is more attractive. If you want a looker, brasso a cheap one.

I suggest you go to a carboot sale and find an old couple with a dish of them, usually £1, 50p if you find a good stall.
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Coinaholic73's Avatar
United Kingdom
298 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinaholic73 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are people seriously suggesting the one with lustre shows signs of cleaning? Not denying it, just want to learn the signs but I wouldn't have said so.

Here's a 1902 from the same seller



Help-With-British-Pennies
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2012  7:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From the photo I could not say if it has been cleaned or not.

What I could say is that it looks to me to be circulated (meaning people have touched it) and if you touch these coins they tend to go brown even if stored in a decent album for more than about 20 years.

To me it seems surprising then that it is the colour that it is...I can't say whether that is down to some sort of foul play or just very clever storage (acetone bath, airtight storage with desicants etc may have preserved it)

I really wouldnt care which is the case but I see it as a liability that it stays looking like that in my possesion and also would prefer a natural looking coin that is showing its age and history. To me it looks like it probably should be brown by now and I have to ask why? (I am cynical by nature especially when buying!)

Don't get me wrong this is a personal preference as you can see by the mixed comments.
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MikeG's Avatar
United Kingdom
128 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  02:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with David; it simply looks 'to good to be true' which is always going to raise suspicions even if it's finish is original and genuine.
Mike.
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enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  02:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is no reason to think that coin has been cleaned. It has just had an easier life than other coins. It looks fully lustrous and very nice IMO. Check out this 1911 Australian penny which was minted in the UK http://www.monetariumadelaide.com.a...ducts_id=851

That coin illustrates that if coins are stored correctly they shouldnt lose their lustre even after 100 years.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36878 Posts
 Posted 08/20/2012  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with enworb. Both the 1901 and 1902 photos posted appear to be nice original Reddish Uncirculated coins. These do not appear to be cleaned. Sometimes the lighting in the photos can give that appearance if too bright.
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Pertinax's Avatar
United Kingdom
2135 Posts
 Posted 08/21/2012  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neither of these two look cleaned to me either, it's perfectly normal for bronze pennies.

The bright new finish is what I call BU, the dark 1901 I would call UNC.

The BU is rarer (in my opinion) and much more desirable.

I bought several George V BU pennies recently - they had been sitting unpackaged open to the air in a drawer in a desk since getting them in change in 1936 according to the owner - he had forgotten they were there.
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