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Fugio

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chefhemi13's Avatar
United States
86 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2012  3:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add chefhemi13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello all! I have recently gained a fascination with the fugio cent.. There's just something so fascinating that this coin was made by Benjamin Franklin during the ratification of the constitution to unite the states together. Before this coin, all of the states had their own currency for trading with the other states, so this was the first national currency of the united states! I would love to see peoples different varieties of the coin, so if you would like, please post some pictures! Also, do any of you know where I can find a Fugio cent in about g-vf condition with not environmental damage or scratches?
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2012  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Someone after my own heart! Just posted my Fugio again recently:
https://goccf.com/t/126304

Franklin didn't "make" the Fugio, but he did craft the designs, which were first used in the 1776 note in my avatar. The difference in the obverse image of the Fugio was set down in the act of Congress that created them; they specified "a meridian sun," or noontime, instead of the sun to the left. Did they mean to make the statement that the nation had just "dawned" in 1776, but eleven years later, America's day was now well underway?
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chefhemi13's Avatar
United States
86 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2012  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chefhemi13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's awesome! I've looked on tons of auction sites to find a nice fugio cent, but no luck so far! I will continue my search for the right one..

And that's a very interesting observation. I am really surprised I don't see more posts on these magnificent historical notes and coins. If I am correct there were only 400,000 cents minted?
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2012  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a great resource as well:

http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/Col...o.intro.html

It's nice to see yet another collector interested in Colonials ;-)
There are a few inexpensive specimens on the bay right now.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2012  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More like 300,000. Only a fraction of what James Jarvis was contracted to make, before he absconded to Europe.
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2012  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Until very recently, all we could say was that the Fugio design was attributed to Benjamin Franklin. No one could say for sure until numismatist extraordinaire Eric P. Newman found these sketches among Franklin's own papers:



Fugio

I like to picture Franklin locked in his study with his compass and protractors, and a bottle of Madeira, trying to geometrically plot out thirteen evenly-spaced rings.

Newman's book on the Fugio coppers is really incomparable. He wrote the first treatise on them in 1949, then revised it... in 2008! The man just turned 101 this year!
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Coindog's Avatar
United States
917 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2012  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coindog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As per your request here's my Fugio. Its a Newman 7T R4. I cant think of another coin that has so much history attached to it. They are extremely difficult to find without any damage and of course when you do they are a gazillion dollars.

Fugio

Fugio
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coinnut1's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2012  12:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinnut1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am a Fugio copper enthusiast. With patience it is not difficult to find a relatively problem-free Fugio copper in mid-grade. There are numerous die combinations that are not rare and which can be found in mid-grade. The best place to find one may be at a coin show.
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cipster's Avatar
United States
2362 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2012  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cipster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love old copper and have a couple of Connecticut colonials - see my avatar. I'm very interested in Fugios but with decent detail they always seem to be beyond my budget. I'll keep looking because the 'hunt' can be the best part of collecting.
Member ANA and EAC

"You got to lose to know how to win".
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coinnut1's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2012  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinnut1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is very difficult to explain how to find material at good prices. The coin hobby and business is highly competitive. Read the book before you buy the coin is sound advice.
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OldSkoolMadSkilz's Avatar
United States
2077 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2012  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OldSkoolMadSkilz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting that UNITED STATES is inset. This would be difficult to put into the die without hubbing it, but I thought that technique came about much later.
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coinnut1's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2012  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinnut1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even more interesting is the "Z" or Z.1 or KN Z.1 reverse which served for the earliest Fugios: 1-Z ; 12-Z; 19-Z.
In high grades, it appears that UNITED STATES as well as the fascinating ornamentation both are engraved by hand.
How these dies were prepared is beyond my comprehension, but they are very complex, certainly more complex than any large cent.
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2012  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The incuse "UNITED STATES" on the band was indeed on the hub, and not added separately to each die. Those letters, the band, and the rings are all identical for the largest proportion of Fugios; a reverse die only became unique when the letters of WE ARE ONE were punched in. The position of UNITED STATES was just a matter of rotation. The die puncher just had a problem turning the image around in his head, and most of the dies rendered coins reading STATES UNITED.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2012  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Interesting that UNITED STATES is inset. This would be difficult to put into the die without hubbing it, but I thought that technique came about much later.

Not hub but a created punch. It would be easy to create a punch of the raised ring. The letters for UNITED STATES would then be punched into this ring and then the punch hardened. Now when it comes time to make the die this punch is pressed into the center of the die face. That gives you an incused ring with raised letters in the die. The circle of linked rings would be another punch and the letters of WE ARE ONE would be punched in individually.

Abel Buell was experimenting with hubbing in the 1780's with some of the Connecticut dies. The US mint tried some experiments in 1794 and more extensive experiments in 1798 to 1800 with hubbing full dies but not with great success. Hubbing of full dies did not come to be the accepted practice until 1836.
Edited by Conder101
10/22/2012 2:59 pm
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2012  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Eric P. Newman seems to feel there was a hub. From his "United States Fugio Copper Coinage of 1787:"

Quote:
The hub already had UNITED STATES incuse on the band, and the rings had no upside or directional indication... Physical evidence supports this conjecture as well, in that the hub seems to have had a defect on one of the rings, that was transferred to the dies. Please refer to the descriptive pages for varieties 1-L, 4-E, and 11-A (which represent the three different positions of UNITED STATES) where the defective ring is noted. When each of these rings is aligned, the words UNITED STATES will be as well.

Meaning, over a broad series of dies, the rings and central band are all in the exact same position, suggesting a hub, and not punches.
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coinnut1's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2012  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinnut1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "Z" reverse differs from all other production reverses. It is called the "raised rims reverse. It is more complex than the other reverses and requires a different explanation of its production.
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