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Can Someone Explain This

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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  11:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was just window shopping over at Great Collections and saw this 20¢ piece that is in a NGC details grade slab. But the thing I don't understand is it says for the reason it is in a details holder is because it has a planchet flaw on the Reverse http://www.greatcollections.com/Coi...C-AU-Details . I would think this would be an error instead of a reason to put it in a details holder. Can someone explain why they did this because of a planchet flaw and have they always done this? I thought the reasons something was put in a details holder was because something was done after the coin was minted not something that was actually there when the coin was minted.
Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BUncirculated to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is interesting they didn't label it an error, if it is a planchet flaw as stated on the label.

Not sure why.
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure why either. I know they do that for laminations as well. But they don't do it for something like a clipped planchette. It makes no sense.
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wquinn's Avatar
United States
2295 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe they felt it was modified ( PMD) in some way?

Is there a way to ask NGC about it?
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cjtm92's Avatar
United States
140 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cjtm92 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's both a Rev. Planchet Flaw and Detailed coin.
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Gyrene7483's Avatar
United States
1704 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If a coin is sent to NGC they will not attribute it as an error unless you specifically request and pay for that attribution. I see no plausible reason why on the same label they would identify a coin as having a planchet defect which is typically regarded as a mint error and then use that as the reason to give the coin a details grade. The label for this coin should indicate it is a mint error, reverse lamination under the grade.

My understanding of a grading service using "details" is that the coin has been cleaned, altered, damaged or otherwise has a post mint caused problem.

If that were my coin I would have sent it back for them to relabel it as a mint error and leave details off of the label.

Ed
ANA LM-3175
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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14454 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just don't understand why they put a planchet flaw in a details slab. It would seem if there were other problems that the coin had they would have mentioned it on the slab as I have seen up to three things listed like Improperly cleaned, bent, and ex-jewelery and I don't see why this would be any different. You can clearly see the planchet flaw was there when the coin was minted so there is no way it was done outside the mint and I just never thought that anything that was done to the coin during the striking of the coin could be called a problem where it should go in a details holder. I guess if they do lamination's the same way it must be one of NGC's policies to do this type of thing but I sure don't understand it
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I dont get it either, but it actually is on NGCs details grading list. When you read the others it clearly doesn't fit in

http://www.ngccoin.com/pdf/details_...brochure.pdf
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5833 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can pay the attribution fee for NGC to label what the mint error suppose to be, if NGC agree they would put it in, but it doesn't mean that the error coin in question is not cleaned or mess with in the past.

My last experience is this 1941-S Large S label with harshly cleaning after the attribution, it doesn't say what type of cleaning it was done to it, perhaps over dipping or polish that I wasn't able to detect.

Can-Someone-Explain-This
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Laminations are basically ugly mint-made flaws and will typically detract from the value of a coin, I would liken them to damage rather than an error. PCGS also detail grades coins with peeling laminations(83) and planchet flaws(93).

Think about it this way- an error should increase the value of a coin but would you really spend $400+ on a coin with a big hunk of metal jaggedly peeled off the surface?
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NPCoin's Avatar
United States
108 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NPCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
biokemist6 is correct in his overall assessment of planchet flaws. Eye appeal is amongst the most subjective areas of grading. It is also the greatest influencer of marketability of a coin. In that respect, planchet flaws are detracting and affect the grade of the coin.

Even the ANA Grading Standards identify planchet defects as detractions that negatively affect grade. Now, that is not to say that there are not those who collect such coins. Every oddity has its niche. However, with respects to grade, whether the damage occurred at the mint or post-mint is not the issue...it is still damage that has created a detraction on the coin, thus affecting the grade.

Another thing to remember is that the TPGs were originally designed to create a completely sight-unseen market for coin "investment". In such case, I would personally prefer to know the coin was damaged with a planchet flaw with the details being AU than to have the coin "EF-40, planchet flaw." The "details" grade gives me more information regarding the coin than a lower adjusted grade. Ideally, such a situation should be "EF-40, rev. planchet flaw, AU details".
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johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I purchased a high AU 1876-CC Double Eagle a couple of months ago in an NGC AU details "Planchet Flaw" slab. It cost about $1500 less than it would of in a problem free slab, and I bought it for that reason. I agree that it detracts from the eye appeal, but at the same time, I dont know if I would still call it a "problem" coin...since it came that way from the mint. It does have in impact on value though as obvious in my case, I am considering resubmitting it as an error.
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enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For me a decent planchet flaw or lamination would be an attraction not a detraction.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 10/11/2012  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this is the first time I had seen it (maybe because I usually do not even look at details coins) and when I did it kind of threw me for a loop as its not something I had ever heard of being called damage
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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Part of the reason you do not see a lot of early copper in slabs is because of the way TPG 's value planchet flaws. If you like early copper flaws are a given.
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2012  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I see bios point of view, I do not agree. This being the personal part of it, I like laminations and all that. Errors, even a part peeling off, are, to me, pretty cool. Regardless of whether you like it or not, it should NOT be a details issue.


Quote:
than it would of


Nononononononononono, it is NOT would of! It is would've, the contraction of would have. Argh!
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