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High Grade Victorian Cent Varieties

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 Posted 10/23/2012  9:48 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Not many people are more interested in Victorian cent varieties than I am. I collect them in low grades, I collect them in high grades, and I have written four books about them. Let's just say that I am enthusiastic about their appeal and potential interest to collectors.

This week SPP acquired a wonderful mint state 1884 obverse 1. At nearly the same time I purchased the 1859 cent shown at the end of this post. As much as I like Vicky varieties, these two terrific coins coming out of the woodwork remind me about several points that I have known for a long time, which variety collectors rarely discuss, and of which they should be aware.

First, please consider that collectible varieties can result in any of the following situations:

1. Some varieties consist of multiple dies (1859 W9/8 have 13 reverse dies)(1891 SDLL have 3 reverse dies)(1892 obverse 2 have 2 obverse dies)(several more).
2. Some varieties consist of only one obverse or one reverse die (1859 DP2, 1859 TP1, 1881H single serif N, 1884 obverse 1, 1886 obverse 1a, and many more).
3. A few varieties consist of only certain die states of a single die (1859 DP1 has a reverse die chip. Without it, it isn't a DP1.)(1891 LDLL "C with Handle" comes from a die chip forming late in the life of a single reverse die.)(The 1858 "Missing 5" comes from a filled die during a portion of the life of that reverse die.)(Several more.)

Of course these three categories neglect die marriages. Many varieties may consist of a single die, but that die may have been married to several opposing dies.

Realizing that many very scarce Victorian cent varieties come from either Category 1 or 2, above, leads to the inevitible conclusion that these scarce varieties occur on every coin struck by a die, or dies. A shortened die life is what makes them scarce.

Now, it was possible for a die to break striking its first coin. My research on 1858 and 1891 cents make me think that rarely happened. Quite a few dies struck only a few hundred, or a few thousand, coins and I think that scenario is much more likely than, say 25 coins.

So where am I going with this? In my opinion, even varieties we now consider very, very scarce (1881H single serif N, 1859 TP1, SPP's 1884 obverse 1, the coin I show below) probably still have numerous undiscovered examples out there. Many still have mint state examples waiting to pop out. As old collections get dusted off and sold, I fully expect some surprises to surface. Some verieties we once thought were rare, or scarce, in high grade (for example I know of about six 1894 fat 4 cents in mint state including mine in 65) will turn out not to be as hard to find as we once thought. Others will prove to be rare, or non-existent, in mint state. It's all part of what makes this a wonderful hobby. Enjoy the coin and let's watch Victorian cent variety collecting evolve.


High-Grade-Victorian-Cent-Varieties
http://www.victoriancent.com

2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
10/23/2012 11:43 pm
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 Posted 10/24/2012  12:19 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice precis on the topic Rob, and that 9/6 is now in the right collection - congrats again on acquiring that coin. Any particular reason why we don't see such variations on the NFLD Victorian large cents? Their mintage was contemporaneous, at the same mints.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 10/24/2012  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some would say,far fewer coins,fewer dies used,lack of research........But Newfies aren't like we.They don't trust banks or governments,or any organization.Any variance in their coinage would have been sure to make them feel cheated,and cause no end of trouble for London.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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viper's Avatar
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 Posted 10/24/2012  07:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add viper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's the nicest 9 over inverted 9 I have ever seen! Congratulation Rob!
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Canada
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 Posted 10/24/2012  08:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeyRey2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love Cictorian Cents. So many varieties and always a chance to discover something new. Only been collecting about a year now but look forward to years of discoveries.

Very nice coin btw!
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 Posted 10/24/2012  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't done any die studies for NF cents. My guess is that, due to the low mintages, only a handfull of dies were needed for each year (as opposed to over 400 dies for the 1858 and 1859 run), so they were able to take more care. There certainly were re-punched letters and numerals, just not many blundered characters.
http://www.victoriancent.com

2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Literary Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
10/24/2012 2:42 pm
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Canada
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 Posted 12/26/2012  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rob, not that I need to know what you paid for that MS-64RB 9/6, but if I was a betting man, I would bet that you did not pay anywhere near this price, for a coin that is 100 times better...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canada-Larg...281042767486

This seller claims rarity is like a brass 1859 and took it upon himself to price it accordingly. Of course, we know that a unique die was capable of striking way more coins than an alloy mixing error.

I do like quotes, and this is a good one from the Green Mile that best describes this asinine asking price,

"I think this boy's cheese slid off his cracker."
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Edited by SPP-Ottawa
12/26/2012 9:39 pm
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papeldog's Avatar
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1923 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  11:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice coin Rob and like Roger has mentioned the coin is in the collection that it belongs can't wait for your next book keep up the great work thanks again Rob for all your work in the hobby.
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 Posted 12/29/2012  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like this post. Part of what makes variety collecting fun is chasing down the discoveries that pop up. Some are fresh and so not too many people have looked for them, some are old and have been searched for for eons. Others are grouped together, like the 9/8 stuff. Regarding the link to the 9/6 above and the claims, these are still available to be had in circ condition for the price of a narrow 9, it's just a matter of looking and patience. I'm willing to bet that the high water mark on this variety has been set with the photo Rob put up.

I have a beautiful MS65 Red 1899/9. I bought it as a 1899, it just happened to be a 9/9 when it arrived. :) gotta like it! I suspect we will find many varieties locked away in MS holders over the next good number of years as people look at them. They will get a nice surprise to be sure for their owners.
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