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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I'm not sure if this topic has been covered on CCF in the past, and curious how a coin designer for the U.S.Mint (knowing he had purchased a coin press from the Mint for scrap price) issue his own collectible coins... In question is the 1976 Bicentennial Silver Dollars issued in 1975 & 1976, all with the 1976 date... No Ike dollars were dated 1975, period... Daniel Carr, however, with the aid of his coin press has produced a 1975 dated Silver Ike dollar that he had overstruck over a genuine 1976 Silver Ike dollar... My concern is that many newer collectors may not know that zero 1975 dated Ike dollars had been issued, and may believe a 1975 dated piece is valuable as there is no "copy" or any other notation on the coin, and not aware that it was a private Fantasy Piece... Am I over reacting, or should Mr. Carr be forced to stamp "Fantasy" on the coin so future generations know this type of activity was legal in this time period... Your thoughts on this! http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-SILVER...em337d0ed496 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1812 Posts |
I have one of his "Washington D.C." State Quarters issued prior to the U.S. Mint deciding to issue 5 more State Quarters in 2009... My Daniel Carr piece has "copy" on Washington's head... And yes, he is the one with the 1964d Peace dollar overstrikes. Edited by Broken-Coin
11/04/2012 5:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5850 Posts |
Yes, this topic has been covered many times before and opinions are all over the map. Mr. Carr justifies his actions by claiming he is only creating coins that don't exist in real life and so technically he isn't required to stamp "copy" on them. He also states repeatedly on his web site that buyers have to promise never to misrepresent the coins as anything other than fantasy pieces if they ever resell them.
Personally, I disagree with what he is doing. His "fantasy" pieces are only fantasy pieces by reason of technicalities (usually just a matter of a fake date) and not because they are true creations of his own intellect. And making buyers promise to not misrepresent them is useless, since (a) there is no way to enforce the promise and (b) what happens with the next owner and the owner after that?
I do believe these will enter the collectors' marketplace down the road and will cause a great deal of confusion (not to mention monetary loss) for newer collectors who aren't savvy enough to realize that, for example, the U.S. Mint never produced an IKE with a 1975 date. And yes, I think Mr. Carr should stamp these as "FANTASY" if that's what he really thinks they are, but he claims that people who are his target audience want the illusion of a real coin and that illusion that would be ruined by putting such a stamp on it.
Just my opinion, of course, but I think what he is doing is borderline dishonest (and definitely disingenuous) and will end up hurting the collecting community down the road.
Edited by barryg
11/04/2012 5:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
Without doubt they could cause a great deal of confusion. I, however, rather enjoy them.  He does not do copper but I would love to see an 1815 Large Cent... Edited by amida17
11/04/2012 5:32 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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but he claims that people who are his target audience want the illusion of a real coin and that illusion that would be ruined by putting such a stamp on it. Which of course is BS since you could use edge lettering that says it and keep the illusion real while giving people a place they can check |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1227 Posts |
Here's a compromise. What about incusing FANTASY NOT REAL TENDER on the side of the coin, a la the Prez dollars? People who don't want to look at it don't have to, unknowledgeable buyers have protection, everybody wins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
My concern was what will collectors think in a generation or two and believe it to be the real thing... Like I mentioned above, his fantasy Washington, D.C. State Quarter that was overstruck on another State Quarter does have "copy" stamped on the head. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5850 Posts |
Quote:Like I mentioned above, his fantasy Washington, D.C. State Quarter that was overstruck on another State Quarter does have "copy" stamped on the head. That's probably because there was a real Washington, D.C., State Quarter that was issued by the Mint for that year. As I said, he justifies his actions by only creating coins for years they were never produced by the Mint (even if the majority of collectors might not know that). Meh. Personally, I think a completely original design for a real date is much more of a "fantasy" coin than one that looks exactly like a real coin except for the date. One is an original piece of artwork that bears no relation to any coin legitimately produced by the Mint, while the other one is made as close to a real coin as possible specifically with the intent to deceive (in my opinion, that is -- obviously Mr. Carr would disagree). |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
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Moderator
Australia
16827 Posts |
Quote:Yes, this topic has been covered many times before and opinions are all over the map.
Is he the guy that did the 64 Peace dollar ? Yes; here is the old thread with discussion on the legality of the Moonlight Mint 1964 Peace dollar replicas. As far as I can tell, they're definitely counterfeits, and definitely illegal. If the Feds threw the book at Von NotHaus / Norfed for making coins vaguely similar to US coinage, I don't see why Daniel Carr should be allowed to get away with making near-exact duplicates of rare/nonexistent genuine coins, just because he personally doesn't plan on selling them as genuine. Yes, Daniel Carr has designed genuine coins for the US Mint. Yes, he strikes the replicas on an ex-Mint surplussed coin press. And yes, he uses genuine coins as "blanks" for his replicas. But none of these facts mitigate against the simple fact that Daniel Carr is not the US Mint and he does not have the authorization to make things that look identical to US coinage. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Locked
822 Posts |
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Mr. Carr justifies his actions by claiming he is only creating coins that don't exist in real life But one of them at least did. If a genuine 1964 Peace dollar turns up, then all Carr's are instantly counterfeits right? Even if they were all destroyed, it doesn't mean it can't be copied. The Brooklyn bridge could fall down tomorrow, doesn't mean we can't copy it. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Wonder why the Chinese haven't hired him yet. If he had a sence of humor he would make such coins as a 1916 Liberty Head Nickel, 1915 Mercury dime, 1908 Lincoln Cent and 1855 Flying Eagle cents. I haven't seen any at any coin shows yet. Wonder who is horading them. And as to legal or not. Such questions pop up all the time. Same as damaging, melting, etc coins. Lots of things are illigal but sort of nothing done about it due to just to minor. For some strange reason our law agencies think Murder and robberies are more important. Edited by just carl
11/04/2012 6:28 pm
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Valued Member
United States
158 Posts |
So does the US Mint not consider their coin designs art work that can't be copied? After all, with all the fuss over people illegally downloading music off of the internet without paying you would think US coins would also fall under that rule? Someone designed them right? Or am I going off to wonderland here? HH |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
 If there was a barfing icon I would be using that too. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
863 Posts |
Does anyone have a picture of some of his coins? how does he restamp them? and how long has he been doing this?
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Replies: 97 / Views: 15,886 |
Posted 11/04/2012 5:13 pm
