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Replies: 40 / Views: 5,204 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1006 Posts |
Poll Question
My venture to the Petersham coin show got me thinking of the condition of coin collecting in Australia the main things I noticed was the age bracket mostly 50+ year olds which isn't bad but considering that only a few years ago the average age of collectors was 37 (read it somewhere forgive me if that is actually the figure for the US been reading alot of their websites alot of them are great reads.) Anyway we can all agree that the average age of coin collectors is steadily increasing. I mean you would have been very very very lucky to have spotted anyone younger than 30 with only me and ark fitting into this bracket. Secondly the disparity between the genders with only 4 or so women at the show one of them collecting the entrance fees, one actually assisting a dealer, one attempting to sell some star notes and my mum. Sorry if this is common knowledge to most of you but I am here scratching my head as to why this is? arnt we as a hobby accomodating female collectors? I mean a ratio of around 25 men to 1 woman is probably very modest but is still mind boggling. I mean I would like to marry a woman who shared my love of coin collecting but with the increasing age average and lack of women collecting are making this a pipe dream at the moment Thirdly the influx of new collectors into the hobby which also is contributing to the increase in average age of collectors? Should we be doing more to help the hobby grow? I know ANDA has committed some resources to encouraging young collectors to collect coins. what is your oppinion on the state of numismatics in Australia and what do you think are the biggest problems facing us as a hobby overall? Note please forgive the MR T reference in the options couldnt halp my self
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
1006 Posts |
In my defence I couldnt help myself seemed like the right thing to write at the time 
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
4411 Posts |
I am in the younger age bracket. I know of about 5 other Aussie members who are also quite young. There are also a few women here. I think the reason you will see less younger collectors at a coin show is they are more prepared to purchase online and some dealers arent very accomodating of younger people. When I attended the Adelaide Anda show last year/two years ago only two dealers had the decency to give me any time even though I had plenty of money to spend. I think we're doing alright as a hobby. I wouldnt base your whole opinion of the state of the hobby on your experiences at one show.
Edited by enworb 12/31/2012 07:40 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
1006 Posts |
Starting to feel like a fool around now 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
"What appears to be visual in a state of mind is merely a hypnotic illusion."I don't know why I remember this from an old high school friend...30+ years ago. 
Edited by oih82w8 12/31/2012 08:07 am
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Moderator
 Australia
16826 Posts |
I would have to agree with all three of the OP's observations: the average age of collectors is increasing; the gender balance is anything but balanced and attracting young people to the hobby is getting more and more difficult. Items one and three are of course related; if no new, young collectors are coming onboard, then of course the average age will be high and getting higher. Explanations are myriad, though I doubt one single cause is predominant. Some blame the Internet Age; back in the 1950s, a kid who didn't like sports had few alternative pastimes; coin collecting was one of them. These days, computer games, social media etc. are giving kids many more options to choose from, so fewer of them are choosing coins. Some blame the general apathy of young people. "Kids these days just aren't interested in history, and you really need some kind of appreciation of history to enjoy being a coin collector". Of course, any student of history ought to recognize that criticizing the younger generation for not being more like the older generations is nothing new. The ancient Greek and Roman philosophers whinged about the same thing, and it took a lot longer than a single generation for those civilizations to collapse. One factor that I think severely limits the participation of young people, is cost. Back when I was a young numismatist (we're talking 1980s-1990s here), a copy of the Yeoman world coin catalogue cost $10; it's equivalent these days is the Krause catalogues, and to get the same coverage as Yeoman you need to buy two or three of them, at $100 each. I bought my first Sear Roman catalogue for $25; I'd need $800 to buy the full set of five Sear catalogues now. The cost of the coins themselves is constantly going up, too, at higher than inflation rate. This is great for those of us that already got the stuff, but makes it much harder for newbies, especially young people, to get in at the ground level and buy good coins for low prices. Perth Mint sells it's "Young Collectors" coins for $15-$20 each; how many YNs on a tight budget can actually afford that kind of thing, especially if' they're supposed to buy all ten or whatever to "complete the set"? As for the gender imbalance issue, I can confirm it; whether it's coin forums, coin club membership, or coin show attendees, the male:female ratio in organized numismatics in eastern Australia is 20:1, or worse. I can also confirm that this imbalance is not constant worldwide, but is different from country to country and even within a country. Western Australia is not as bad as the east coast states, and New Zealand and Britain are even closer to parity. But in America and Germany, the ratio is much the same as it is here. Explanations for this are much harder to come by, but seem to revolve around the cultural expectations: is coin collecting seen as a "guy thing", or not? For a hobby that is purely voluntary, the presence of either or both biases, anti-youth and anti-female, is self-reinforcing. If you're a young person and go to a coin show and only see old people, you're going to think, wow, there's not going to be much here I'm interested in. Further, the dealers at the show simply won't have much experience in engaging with young people, since most of their customers are not. Given time, the stereotype evolves into prejudice: a dealer assumes that a young person can't possibly be a serious collector, because they've never met one that is before. People who are suffering prejudice are going to go away and find something else to do, somewhere else, where they aren't prejudged so much.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
750 Posts |
Fabulous analysis Sap. The nostalga trip made me pick up my trusty 1975 Renniks sitting next to me. Cost me $5.45 back then, which could have bought some pretty good coins at the time. Still remember the day I bought it.
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Valued Member
Australia
191 Posts |
Pretty good summation, being a young collector I do agree that the average age is quite high (i'd say 50-70 on average). I haven't been collecting for too long so it's hard to say if that has changed over the last 5-10 years or not.
There are a few younger collecters I have noticed at coin shows, one problem/issue I do notice personally about being a younger collector is that dealers/collectors assume you a) have no money and/or b) assume that you don't know what you are talking about.
Edited by dcoin 12/31/2012 10:22 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote: Starting to feel like a fool around now there is NO reason for that whatsoever  What you posted is a very valid question. I would assume that the reason us old farts are a high percentage buyers at shows, is the fact that most of us have more disposable income than the young guns. We have some outstanding young numismatists in Australia and the women collectors IMHO have a far better eye for detail than most of us "Blokes". The enthusiasm and passion involved in this hobby isn't age or gender based, I think there is a financial barrier for the young and female collectors. As old fart collectors we have a duty of care to help and encourage new people in this hobby. The best way to do this is if you see a newer collector struggling to keep up with their collection simply give them some of the coins they want/need to reduce the financial burden on them. I have done this on occasion and believe me I think I get far more pleasure/satisfaction out of doing this than simply hoarding them coins for myself. I think it is up to the old codgers to offer encouragement, knowledge and the odd coin or two to keep this great hobby alive and thriving. 
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2180 Posts |
I'd be inclined to say everything is great (or good anyway). Coin shows that I go to seem to draw a crowd and the fact we have two different coin catalogues to choose from shows that there is reasonable interest in the hobby.
Maybe the lack of new collectors is an issue though, but as enworb said, maybe the youngsters just don't show themselves (I know in my case I started collecting when I was young and it was more than a decade before I went to a coin show/made an expensive purchase). Hostile dealers don't help, and it seems the friendly ones are a minority (and I'm confused by the ones who are - surely making the effort to turn up and showing some interest says more about you than your age).
Also, I get the impression that coin collecting initially became pretty big in Australia because of decimalisation, and nothing like that has happened since 1966.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1411 Posts |
First, I am a YN. My viewpoint is from Canada, but what I see seems to be similar in other countries too. 1) No major changes in the coinage means that few will start collecting due to a major change. This is other than the massive number of commemoratives These have been getting so numerous that most types are sent back into circulation, with a select few being hoarded (for Canada, mostly the colored ones) 2) Finances. It is very, very costly to get started with books (I've put almost as much into books as I have into coins, and I have very few books), and the coins aren't cheap either  . 3) Attitude towards Youth. a) Few have met serious YN collectors b) Little Profit from YN's means some dealers don't care about them A few of my stories relating to this. a) My Local Ancient Coin Dealer said I was the first YN collector of ancient coins that he had seen or heard of... b) Other than two LCS and a few dealers at the Toronto Coin Expo, most treat YN's with little respect, as they have never seen a serious collector that was a YN and YN's don't have as much money, so they don't make as much from YN's as they do adults. This is quite sad, as it puts Youth off of coin collecting. However, the biggest problem is the school system. 'History' (atleast in Canada) is mostly about government (our entire ancient Greece unit was about Athenian democracy). This is causing a lack of respect for history, as youth are taught that the only important history is the history of Government, your religion and your country, with little taught otherwise.
Edited by Windchild 12/31/2012 6:28 pm
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Formerly nancyc
Australia
5385 Posts |
Quote: The best way to do this is if you see a newer collector struggling to keep up with their collection simply give them some of the coins they want/need to reduce the financial burden on them. I have done this on occasion and believe me I think I get far more pleasure/satisfaction out of doing this than simply hoarding them coins for myself. I think it is up to the old codgers to offer encouragement, knowledge and the odd coin or two to keep this great hobby alive and thriving. I have also tried to encourage YN's (particularly Aussie ones) in the past whenever I could, even it's just sending them a few coins that they need to fill some gaps. I haven't done so lately, as I've been pre-occupied, but when / if I see an opportunity, I'll resume my encourage YN activities.  It's my version of 'Paying it Forward'. 
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
There are lots of Women & Kids on ebay Coins/Notes in Oz. but I think its more related to making a profit(for ebay,LOL) than genuine collecting but that may change as they start hanging on to their better buys.As I posted elsewhere I went to school in the 1960's and we had a coin/stamp dealer talk to us for 1 period a week in Social Studies(?),that doesn't seem to happen any more in Australia.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
762 Posts |
Great question OMF. I agree that many dealers seem to have no people skills and I have found many of them in retail shops to be quite surly. There have been times when I've quite innocently asked them a question and they've treated me with contempt. Maybe we could get ANDA to provide some "people skills" training to dealers.  As for the age bias, there is no doubt that coin collecting is an expensive hobby. I was a very casual collector up until my mid forties when I had paid off my house and was looking for something else to put my money into. I'm glad this passion has developed late because there is no way I could have afforded this hobby in my 20s. My prediction is that as the population ages there will be more people drawn to collecting.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
4411 Posts |
I just quickly looked through my ebay invoices back to the 21/12/2012. 28 male buers and 13 female. Not a huge sample but I have always noticed a similar trend when I sell about 1 woman for every two or three men. I'm suprised that it would be 1 to 20 sap but I'm sure through your association with the coin club you have much more reliable stats.
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Replies: 40 / Views: 5,204 |