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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,759 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
979 Posts |
EDIT: Let me start by saying that I meant to discuss the issue: "why are copper cents worth more than face but less that metal value?"
So copper hoarding is sometimes said to be a waste because the copper can never be melted. Some people argue that some day we will be able to. Like canada, I think the US gov will want the metal even when the cent is discontinued.
For the sake of argument, say that we as citizens will never be able to melt the copper we hoard.
Now think of copper bullion rounds. They have a premium based on "coin" value, purity, etc etc, however, most people would still say most of the value comes in the METAL.
So if the metal is the value, is the value intrinsic or extrinsic?
For example, if you believe the value is extrinsic, also know as instrumental value, is what you can DO with that metal.
However... who would ever melt down .999 bullion rounds that are stamped with a winged liberty in order to get to the copper? It would be crazy to melt them down in a factory for pipes and such.
So then is the value of its metal intrinsic? That would mean the metal itself has the value, not the ability to use that metal to make pipes or statues of Einstein (though the latter would be a great use, IMHO)
So if I'm correct, people don't melt 99.9% copper bullion rounds.
If that is correct, why does it matter that 95% copper cents cannot be melted?
Is the inability to melt these cents a stigma that just masks their value?
Just wondering what other people think about this. Edited by Broseph
01/30/2013 2:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
The reason it is illegal; to melt pennies is because it costs the gov't more money to replace them than they are worth, thus costing the gov't when they are melted.
A restriction I am sure will be remedied once the gov't gets fiscally smart and eliminates the penny.
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Valued Member
United States
107 Posts |
Do you have any source on that? Seems to me it is illegal to destroy most currency. It doesn't cost the government more than $100 to make a $100 bill, so in theory I should be allowed to destroy these.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Edited by denco7
01/30/2013 1:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
979 Posts |
It IS without a doubt illegal to melt US pennies as well as nickels (they are also worth more than face in metal value)
I'm saying, why does it matter? People don't melt bullion anyway.
I'll elaborate on something I noted on the canadian cents.
Canada is only days away from abolishing cents. It will STILL be illegal to melt them. The canadian gov will be getting the metal for itself. Why would the US be any different? After learning this, I changed my thinking from "some day it will be legal to melt them" to "oh, that'll never happen"
But I did say "For the sake of argument, say that we as citizens will never be able to melt the copper we hoard." Because of course I know some people believe that we will be able to eventually. I was trying to avoid going off an a "legality of melting" thread.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts |
I think it would be a travesty if they were melted! The value added numismatically is more than enough to deter I would think.
EDIT: They are worth less than melt because people feel trapped by not having the option of melting them - theres security in being able to melt it (despite the fact that the value would depreciate for most value). People just think ti would be difficult to move centds and easy to move bullion (a downward spiral)
Edited by Ben
01/30/2013 2:34 pm
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Moderator
 United States
188052 Posts |
Not being able to melt them limits their utility and creates a more narrow market. Narrow markets have limited demand, which is what drives the value.
If the melt ban is lifted, two things will happen. The melt value of copper will go down (increased supply), but the value of copper cents will go up (increased market).
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Valued Member
United States
462 Posts |
I never understood this. As a cash shelter it doesn't matter is you can melt it or not. It works exactly like bullion of any metal. The benefit of not melting it is that it is essentially assayed already as along as it is a US cent. The drawback is the size of the bullion. 3.5 grams of something that trades at three bucks a pound. That's why it sells for under melt.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
Well, according to some here, there already are pennies being melted down. I always thought it would be cool to melt a bunch down and make a big loaf type bar but I wouldn't have the first idea of how to go about it. Probably be a lot more complicated than you think.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Pillar of the Community
United States
979 Posts |
Novelty copper loaf sounds cool. A mold of a statue would be cooler though :)
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,759 |
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Posted 01/30/2013 12:43 pm
