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Tax Question Regarding The Sale Of Coins.....

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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 02/03/2013  11:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
It's been my understanding that anyone (private individual or a business) that sells over $30,000 a year in coins, has to charge HST.

Anybody with info regarding this?
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cameron93's Avatar
Canada
190 Posts
 Posted 02/03/2013  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cameron93 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Hi double eagle,

Yes, that's correct... not just coins, but any business that crosses that sales threshhold must declare income as a business and collect and submit taxes...

A couple years ago ebay lost a court case in which they were trying to resist the request of federal government to access there records regarding ebay sellers who were exceeding that number...

Revenue Canada will now be looking at these sellers to see if they've been declaring the sales as income and fulfilling other obligations regarding to collecting and remitting sales taxes...

Take care, and Have a Great Monday!

cameron93
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 Posted 02/04/2013  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EastVanRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the wording of the law itself regarding small suppliers (s. 148 of the Excise Tax Act):

148. (1) For the purposes of this Part, a person is a small supplier throughout a particular calendar quarter and the first month immediately following the particular calendar quarter if

(a) the total of all amounts each of which is the value of the consideration (other than consideration referred to in section 167.1 that is attributable to goodwill of a business) that became due in the four calendar quarters immediately preceding the particular calendar quarter, or that was paid in those four calendar quarters without having become due, to the person or an associate of the person at the beginning of the particular calendar quarter for taxable supplies (other than supplies of financial services and supplies by way of sale of capital property of the person or associate) made inside or outside Canada by the person or associate

does not exceed the total of

(b) $30,000 or, where the person is a public service body, $50,000, and

(c) where, in the four calendar quarters immediately preceding the particular calendar quarter, the person or an associate of the person at the beginning of the particular calendar quarter made a taxable supply of a right to participate in a game of chance or is deemed, under section 187, to have made a supply in respect of a bet and the supply is a taxable supply, the total of all amounts each of which is

(i) an amount of money paid or payable by the person or the associate as a prize or winnings in the game or in satisfaction of the bet, or

(ii) consideration paid or payable by the person or the associate for property or a service that is given as a prize or winnings in the game or in satisfaction of the bet.

Exception
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), where at any time in a calendar quarter

(a) the total of all amounts each of which is the value of the consideration (other than consideration referred to in section 167.1 that is attributable to goodwill of a business) that became due in the calendar quarter, or that was paid in that calendar quarter without having become due, to a person or an associate of the person at the beginning of the calendar quarter for taxable supplies (other than supplies of financial services and supplies by way of sale of capital property of the person or associate) made inside or outside Canada by the person or associate

exceeds the total of

(b) $30,000 or, where the person is a public service body, $50,000, and

(c) where, in the calendar quarter, the person or an associate of the person at the beginning of the calendar quarter made a taxable supply of a right to participate in a game of chance or is deemed, under section 187, to have made a supply in respect of a bet and the supply is a taxable supply, the total of all amounts each of which is

(i) an amount of money paid or payable by the person or the associate as a prize or winnings in the game or in satisfaction of the bet, or

(ii) consideration paid or payable by the person or the associate for property or a service that is given as a prize or winnings in the game or in satisfaction of the bet,

the person is not a small supplier throughout the period beginning immediately before that time and ending on the last day of the calendar quarter.

Application
(3) This section does not apply to a non-resident person who makes a supply in Canada of admissions in respect of a place of amusement, a seminar, an activity or an event and whose only business carried on in Canada is the making of such supplies.

Meaning of "associate"

(4) In this section, "associate" of a particular person at any time means another person who is associated at that time with the particular person.
Edited by EastVanRob
02/04/2013 12:15 am
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 Posted 02/04/2013  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EastVanRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
^
If a person is a small supplier, they do not have to register to collect and remit GST/HST. They may register voluntarily.
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2013  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the great info!

If the CRA comes a knockin, I'll be A-OK.
Edited by doubleeagle59
02/04/2013 12:41 am
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 Posted 02/04/2013  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You may not meet the requirements of "small supplier" if you sold over $30,000.A coin forum is not the best place to seek tax or medical advice.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Australia
112 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2013  04:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Bowden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Worth considering:

I am not sure how this applies to other countries, but you may find exemptions to GST in relation to second hand collectible items.

You may still need to register at a certain threshold of turnover, and report sales, but may not necessarily have to collect or pay GST related taxation.

Note: I'm not an expert - just suggesting looking in to it, as it could make a big difference to your margins.

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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 02/04/2013  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand that if you sell only a few coins that the sale of the coins can be viewed as capital gains.

However, I believe if you're up to or beyond the 30K mark in coin sales, the CRA will see this as a business and hence will be accountable for income tax.
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 02/04/2013  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But if you're selling one single coin that's worth more than $30,000 then is that considered a business? How do they come up with such a silly number?
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2013  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One single coin and it is not a business but a capital gain.

CapGain = $30,000 minus your documented cost of coin.

(if you don't have a documented cost of coin you can only deduct $1000; your CG in this case would be $29K).
Edited by doubleeagle59
02/04/2013 9:44 pm
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MJT's Avatar
Canada
196 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MJT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This issue can become very tricky when you claim that you inherited your coins from your parents or gradparents
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2013  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Inheritence of coins would fall under Capital gains if sold, but definitely check with your accountant, especially if the value is substantial.

Bear in mind, any amount of doubt, whether its origin or cost value, if you're audited, the CRA will decide the issue in their favour(unless you have absolute concrete proof to the contrary).
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