Help With Grading MS-60+ Kennedy's - Coin Community Forum

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eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 10:43 am I seem to not be able to grade these very well and I know someone here might have some resources to which I have not yet found. Let me explain what I am up to and why I need some better guidance on just how to tell a MS60 from an MS62 from a MS65 etc. I have multiple coin books including the standard ANA standard grading book. This is fine for looking at Barber halves etc but when it comes to Kennedy's I get lost real quick. I have even tried the PCGS photo online grade webpage and I just can not see the difference between a MS66 and MS67. The reason is that I roll search and try to keep outstanding examples with the hope of getting lucky. Just this last week I found a 1991D that was breathtaking (to me anyway and I see lots of halves). I even bought a copy of the Red Book for Franklin and Kennedy's but it doesn't really have the information on how to tell whether I have a MS63 or and MS67. It does however tell me the approximate values which is nice. I have found some 71D's that are what I would consider perfect but I just don't know. The Red Book says that a 71D in MS65 can be $17 to $25 while a MS66 can be $35-$50. However an MS67 is $125 to $175. If by chance one is MS68 it jumps to $1000 or better. So that is my diliema, how do I tell? For example I will post the 1991D and see what y'all think. If you have some links with more detailed information, please let me know. I can not describe just how good this coin looks. My camera is not the best but I can describe the mint luster as perfect, the edges are also perfect. I see lots of these with the luster but none like this. The best way I can describe it is proof-like with out the mirror effect. I see no real scratches etc, but I am sure there are some small ones that can not be seen with these eyes. I have only found two halves like this, the other being a 98 that had the infamous 'ring' so I tossed it back. According to the RedBook, MS64 ~ $10 MS65 ~ $15-$30 MS66 ~ $75-$100 MS67 ~ $750 - $1500 MS68 ~ Only 2 exists certified MS69 ~ Only 1 exists certified So I would say MS66 or better but I really just don't know. I am not looking to send it in unless it makes sense. I am just trying to learn how to tell. I see lots of 83's and 84's and it is just plain hard to get a good one with sharp details. What the wife and I do is we both have a blue Whittman folder (One master set, the other secondary). When we come across a coin that peaks our interest we will compare with what we have and if it is better we swap them out. I do not necessarily throw the other back but place it in a tube for later. This 1991D won hands down and the other was almost perfect also. Purely on the degree of the 'mirror' of the coin did it make it no contest. I know it was not polished, nor a proof, but oh boy does this Half look great in person. If I can find a way to really estimate the grade on these I could then look at both folders and see if there are any other gems so to speak. Well thank you for reading my diatribe but I really have no other place to look. Report this Post to the Staff

eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 10:51 am I forgot to post the links to the higher quality photo's for zoom purposes. Report this Post to the Staff
BadToTheBone Pillar of the Community United States 1795 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 12:01 pm Hmmmn Glare makes it hard to see coin for a more concise evaluation. I always use a high power magnifying glass 35x under a halogen light to look for scratches etc. that one would miss. Then go from there. I do have graded PCGS and NGC coins graded MS66 that have small marks(scratch , nick etc.) but unnoticed unless you know where they are on the coin. Hope this is of some help to you. Under Better light could well be A MS66 or MS65 for sure. Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 12:52 pm OK I tried some better pictures (I think). This with my digital camera but the problem in macro mode is I can not manually focus.. I can not take a good picture to save me but at least these can be zoomed. Report this Post to the Staff
chris12018 Pillar of the Community United States 2130 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 3:59 pm I too have 2 sets, 1 w/ proofs & upgrade the same way. Kennedy's are hard to grade. When I find one worth a 2nd look, I compare it to a slabbed MS. The one you posted, I would grade at MS63-64. It seems to have some contact marks on the obv. Although the strike on the coin looks strong. Nice find. Report this Post to the Staff
BadToTheBone Pillar of the Community United States 1795 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 7:49 pm MS64 at Best...looks like a lot of hairlines on obverse and reverse. More likely it would be a MS63 for sure.Very sharp strike though. Still a very nice coin. Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 7:55 pm So you there is a count of scratches and bag marks that determine part of the grade? This is why I am asking because I know there is no wear on the coin, so BU is a given...now going from MS60 on up is the challenge I face. MS64 would be good and I know just how rare these are as I have found very few in this condition but I understand they are coming from bank rolls and such. Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/03/2013 8:23 pm OK my pictures are just not doing justice I think. The comment above about comparing to already slabbed coins was a great idea. So ... Here is one NGC MS67....$350? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-D-KENN...em3a6dfd35f2 From the picture (downloaded and zoomed), I think that mine is close except the mint luster/polish quality of mine I feel is better by far. Next a PCGS MS66,$80 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-D-50C-...em5d3a48381a Condition looks the same I think but again not the luster part. Next a NGC MS66 $34 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-D-KENN...em41700b55ca I actually think this one is better than the NGC MS67! Another NGC MS67 $350? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-D-KENN...em53f3cb5f10 An NGC MS67 $700? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-D-KENN...em33532c7726 This one is sharp indeed but I can not zoom it very well. And now a NGC MS68! $2800! http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-D-KENN...em5d39754c1e Wow! I look at this coin and I do see a resemblance of the luster I see in mine. I know that mine can not be a MS68 but looking at these I am sure it can at least compete with the MS67's by my untrained eye. That is why I need to gather some information on how to distinguish the grades. Report this Post to the Staff
chris12018 Pillar of the Community United States 2130 Posts	Posted 03/04/2013 4:45 pm I think the MS64 is close to yours w/ the contact marks. I would have graded it MS63 w/ all the contact marks on the cheek. JMO. Everyone wants their coin to grade higher. But, you have to be honest about what you have. By doing this you will get better at grading & picking out the gems. Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/04/2013 6:35 pm Oh I agree that I need to be honest about it and I need to learn hence the post for a request of information. If a certain number of scratches warrant a certain grade then I agree. I know it is hard to see but there are not that many scratches on it or at least I can not see them. Since most here agree then I now understand that an MS65 must be to my eyes a perfect coin,, to see farther I need to magnify some and count/look for the scratches. For one I really wish I could manually focus my camera. Its all AUTO and even in MACRO mode I just can not get it. I will post a couple more but they look no different than the others. I see the scratches in the pictures but I can not see them on the coin that much. Oh well, I am going to a coin show and see if I can pick up some MS65 or greater slabbed coins for cheap (yeah right). I guess if I had one in hand I could better tell what I am looking at. Here is what my camera does, I took a picture of my book. Zoom or not some of these look great, some better than others. One example is my 1986P, it is nice as I have seen. Yet it still doesn't even come close to the 1991D, not even in the ballpark. I have a journey ahead to learn about these. I love a challenge and I appreaciate all the comments and help. One bad thing though, I now need to get a 98 Matte finish half. Its called the king of the Kennedy's and I now want one! Thanks all! Report this Post to the Staff
Earle42 Bedrock of the Community United States 10038 Posts	Posted 03/11/2013 11:44 pm I strongly suggest you get these out of the folder they are in and at least into an album. I lost a lot of good coins to these folders. I thought when I stored them that the I took all needed precautions. But over the years some of the BU coins had their REVs lose the luster b/c (my guess) of what little water was in the folder's cardboard. This is why I transferred mine to an album - Wizard coin sells a JFK album that goes at least up to Y2K - including proofs - for 5.00 (but shipping is 9.00!). I put in one order to Wizard and got quite a few of the albums so the shipping was not bad. The cost difference between buying the albums Wizard sells and another brand was 79.00! Here is a review of them: https://goccf.com/t/108818 I also have started a set of JFKs in 2X2s in 3-ring binder pages. Reading here on CCF has taught me that albums will also tone coins over time, so now I am thinking of putting everything into 2X2s. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/12/2013 07:30 am I will have to look into this...thanks Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/13/2013 11:04 pm Well I got my graded coins today and those of you that said the 1991 I posted was no more than a MS64, I think you are right. I looked at some that I bought, MS65,67,68 and that 1991 is not even as good as the MS65. Odd thing is the MS65 has some strange marks on it, but it is graded. Also one of my PCGS MS68 has a ding in one of the letters. Still I am on the journey of understanding and knowledge is power. Thanks Report this Post to the Staff
1188howest Valued Member Canada 470 Posts	Posted 03/14/2013 04:55 am So you purchased some graded examples, - From who and how much for each. The most rewarding way to purchase these is during a long road trip with a bowl full of barter items. Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/14/2013 07:19 am I will try pics later, maybe tonight...off to work. Report this Post to the Staff
eSinger Pillar of the Community United States 523 Posts	Posted 03/15/2013 11:27 pm OK here are the Pictures, 1984_PCGS_PR69DCAM 1998D_NGC_MS67 2005P_PCGS_MS68_Satin 2006P_NGC_MS68_Satin_SMS 2007D_PCGS_MS65 2010P_NGC_MS67 2011D_NGC_MS67 2011P_NGC_MS67 Report this Post to the Staff
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