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Coin Grading - Third Side

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raybutler's Avatar
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 Posted 04/04/2013  9:38 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add raybutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello to all,

I have been studying a lot and have gotten pretty fair at grading the few coins I have studied (Barbers, Standing liberties and seated liberties) My question is how do you account for edge dings?

I mean if a coin would be VF/EF based on the Obverse and Reverse Details but has a couple of edge dings(or nicks), how do you determine it's appropriate grade?

I found such a coin at a great deal (steal) if graded on front and back only but how much should you devalue due to the "third side"? Is it worse than a scratch on the front or back?

As always any help is appreciated


Edited by raybutler
04/05/2013 1:02 pm
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BadToTheBone's Avatar
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 Posted 04/04/2013  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadToTheBone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm I sure that the edge dings affect the grade but all I know is that I won't purchase a coin with edge dings myself. I'm sure many feel the same way.
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westcoin's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2013  01:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the rim ding affects the look from either side, or flattens the coin any, it would be a details grade listed as damaged by most TPG's.
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2013  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It all depends on the extent of the edge damage. If significant those coins would grade details like mentioned if its insignificant sometimes they grade sometimes they dont. As far as I know theres no standard formula for it and its taken on a case by case basis for the extent of the damage. the best way to approach it may just be to treat it as its own category in the sense of is it bad enough to cause a details grade or not
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2013  02:58 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I found such a coin at a great deal (steal) if graded on front and back only but how much should you devalue due to the "third side"? Is it worse than a scratch on the front or back?


Rim issues have to be evaluated on a case by case basis. Your question above is clear though. A rim ding that is only visible from the edge would not hurt the grade as much as an obverse/reverse scratch.

Pictures will let us know what you really have grade wise.
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raybutler's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2013  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add raybutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a photo of the coin in question, on the obverse there are a couple of dings at 5 and 6 o'clock and a couple small nicks at 10 and 12 o'clock, it also appears a little out of round between 1 and 3 o'clock.

On the reverse the ding is at 9 o'clock. I also just realized it has a scratch below the tail feathers.

It's probably considered damaged but, can it be repaired professionally? If so, is it cost prohibitive?

What would the approximate grade be, if left alone?

Coin-Grading---Third-Side

Coin-Grading---Third-Side
Edited by raybutler
04/05/2013 11:12 am
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2013  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would grade this coin VF35 details. it appears there is a flattened rim between 2 and 3 o'clock as well as the obv and rev rim dings and the scratch on the rev. If I was going to buy (i wouldn't), I would price it at no more than 25% of retail. A clean VF35 would go for about $150.
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raybutler's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2013  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add raybutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's about right then, at 25% of $150 that would be 37.50 and he wants $35.

So that's about the market value of this coin, but.... I think I'll keep looking.

Thanks.
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 04/05/2013  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's about right then, at 25% of $150 that would be 37.50 and he wants $35.

So that's about the market value of this coin, but.... I think I'll keep looking.

Thanks.


I would too. That's more than just 3rd side. The damage is into the obverse/reverse and almost looks like the coin was mounted.

$35 is fair enough for someone who wants it in an album that covers much of the rims. You can find a nice f12 for that money with some searching.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2013  08:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Depends on what you want it for. It's pretty hard to find a good deal on a Barber half with that much detail. It would probably look pretty good in a 7070 until you found an upgrade. I know I'd rather go that route than a G-4 example.
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raybutler's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2013  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add raybutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see your point, especially if it's in a album. I started out with a 1908-S G-4 in my collection and always hated it, sold it on the bay for $15 and would definitely rather have this one for only $20 more.

I'm just hoping to find something with no damage... although I could probably always get my money back out of it. I may go ahead and get it as a space filler in the meantime as I do like the detail.

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linxlvr's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2013  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add linxlvr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMHO - I would consider this rim damage very significant. The scratches on the reverse are significant also. You might want to check it's weight also, just to be sure. As for the other questions, Repairing, No. Grade, None. Depending on TPG, of course. I'm with PCGS on the idea of not grading Bodybag coins. In my mind, the grade is a very specific thing that doesn't actually allow for things like scratches and/or rim damage.

As for the scratches at the base of the reverse, even if the only damage on the coin were the scratches that are beneath the wing, it fails standard grading.
Edited by linxlvr
04/06/2013 10:31 am
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babysitr's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2013  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add babysitr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a classic example of edge damage that would for sure get the coin a DETAILS grade and affect the value raw....IMHO
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2013  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Depending on TPG, of course. I'm with PCGS on the idea of not grading Bodybag coins.


They all grade details coins now, they dont give a specific grade but for example would say like "rim damage - vf details"
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linxlvr's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2013  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add linxlvr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They all grade details coins now, they dont give a specific grade but for example would say like "rim damage - vf details"


Thanks Baseball, I was unaware that PCGS had "augmented" their PCGS Genuine slab. I'm not usually in the market for those pieces, so I hadn't even noticed.



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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 04/06/2013  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Im not sure when they did it but I think once NGC started doing it they followed suit so they didnt lose all of the market to them. I do think theres some value to knowing the approximate grade assuming the detail wasnt retooled into it, I'm not a fan of the questionable color designation though especially on old coins. A coins 100+ years old and you have no evidence it was cleaned or altered but dont like the color so you devalue it by giving it that, that just doesn't sit right we me.
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