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1878 Morgan, Ain't Got A Clue

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david29's Avatar
United States
432 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2013  9:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add david29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
First off, I know ain't ain't a word. I bought this coin last week and it arrived today. It is graded MS 62 by NGC. 1878 7 TF REV OF 78

When I first saw the coin I thought it might have been a VAM-84A SUPER CD. But there was some other stuff going on and I decided to take a chance and I purchased. I know my pictures are not worth a crap but I tried to get some photos so someone might be able to give me an idea what direction to go. If there is something else you need to see, let me know and I will try to get it up.

First picture is the obv.


1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue

Next is a nice clash on the neck


1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue

Chin and nose clashes


1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue



1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue

Eye Clash



1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue



1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue

1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue


REVERSE


1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue




Marks underneath 2,3,5 Tailfeathers, die chips maybe?
1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue


File lines through the bow
1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue


The inner feather of the left wing looks like it is almost gone, a little detail in the center and bottom.
1878-Morgan,-Ain't-Got-A-Clue

Maybe I am just a fool and am overlooking something simple.
The coin just seems weird to me.
Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2013  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like VAM41C to me.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2013  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC amuses me sometimes.

It's a 7/8TF reverse - NGC designates that but apparently didn't notice it here. The "chips" you see under the tailfeathers are remnants of the 8TF reverse the new 7TF reverse was punched over, hence, the 7/8TF designation. I agree with VAM-41C for it. That's a Super CD coin, not a serious rarity at MS62 but one of the most fascinating 1878's, for sure.
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david29's Avatar
United States
432 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2013  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add david29 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You guys nailed it. I guess it was just the NGC attribution that threw me for a loop. If I would have paid more attention to the coin than the attr. I would have found it just fine. Thanks for the help guys.
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2013  12:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congrats on the bonus! I'm all over any Morgan that has clash lines off the chin and lips.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2013  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I <3 V41C. It's got some of the busiest clashing ever seen on a Morgan.
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twodsonegf's Avatar
United States
637 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2013  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twodsonegf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree- the V41C is one of my favorites! Been hoping to pick higher grade one like what you found at least. I think the 7/8 Tail feather varieties are all pretty neat to begin with. Still hoping for the 44A ha.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2013  02:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGC get's almost as many VAMs wrong as they get correct - not a good track record for them - as seen on vamworld site as well in the message board. I would never trust them without doing some research on the VAM other than looking at their label.

PCGS can get it wrong too, here is a funny story I'll repost from a good friend of mine over at the VW forum, he and I shared tables at coin shows back in the early 1990s, he is now one of the board directors of the SSDC:

True story (and a fun one): 1998, I believe, and Teletrade was not online - I'm not sure if Al Gore had even invented the internet yet. Bidding was by phone from a weekly catalog that came in the mail, so the only pictures possible were those that Brad Johnson's written descriptions may have generated in your mind's eye. Cherrypicking was pure luck unless you lived close enough to Kingston, NY, to view lots in hand.

I mailed out some raw coins for grading/auction and forgot about them. It was a time when a MS-63 8-TF commanded the princely sum of $65, and included in my consignmnt was a lovely 14.1 example, just dripping with creamy luster. Only one mark in front of the portrait was keeping it from MS-66. I chose NGC because I expected a coveted star designation, but secretly I hoped they might also 'five' this appealing specimen, despite the unlucky mark in the field. Naturally, I did NOT request a VAM number on this coin because of the negative premium effect it would trigger.

Months later, I was blithely unconcerned about how my lots had graded or even when they would cross the auction block until the afternoon I got a frantic phone call from Teletrade. It was about 10 minutes after the 3 PM start time of their auctions and Brad asked me if I knew the attribution of my 8-TF. I quickly answered '14.1' and asked why he wanted to know. The reason, he answered, was simple: besides the MS-64 grade, it had been given a Top-100 VAM-9 designation. Bidding was already over ten grand and I was told that Dr Fey was in his car and on his way from New Jersey!

Naturally, we pulled the coin from the phone frenzy and they shipped it to me in the misattributed slab free of all charges, including grading. Shortly thereafter, I shipped it, in turn, to the other author of that little book that changed so many of our lives. Jeff had been delighted and amused by the story of Miss Liberty's great adventure and he greatly desired that she join his vast harem of lovely silver ladies there in sunny California. She could not have asked for a better home and so I was happy to oblige . . . . Vam-O-Rama

"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 09/06/2013  09:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1878-P VAM 41C is considered a "weak reverse" and NGC does not designate these as 7/8TF. I've seen countless VAM 33's (also a weak reverse) in 1878 rev of 78 holders from NGC. PCGS, ANACS and ICG will recognize "weak reverses" as 7/8 TF varieties. Not sure if NGC has joined the others recently, but older holders will show 1878 rev of 78.
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