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 Replies: 119 / Views: 14,795 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3445 Posts |
Perhaps the 'coins' were from Helvetica
With chocolate inside !
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
Now that the dust has settled ......... once again.
We can concentrate on 'weightier' topics.
'Decline and Fall'
Chapter XXIV
Marriage and character of Honorius, A.D. 398
The joy of the African triumph was happily connected
with the nuptials of the emperor Honorius,and of his cousin
Maria, the daughter of Stilicho;
and this equal and honourable alliance seemed to invest the powerful minister
with the authority of a parent over his submissive pupil.
The muse of Claudian was not silent on this propitious day; he sung,
in various and lively strains,the happiness of the royal pair,
and the glory of the hero who confirmed their union and supported their throne.
The ancient fables of Greece,
which had almost ceased to be the object of religious faith,
were saved from oblivion by the genius of poetry.
The picture of the Cyprian grove, the seat of harmony and love;
the triumphant progress of Venus over her native seas,
and the mild influence which her presence diffused in the palace of Milan,
express to every age the natural sentiments of the heart in the just and pleasing language of allegorical fiction.
But the amorous impatience which Claudian attributes to the young prince
must excite the smiles of the court; and his beauteous spouse
(if she deserved the praise of beauty)
had not much to fear or to hope from the passions of her lover.
Honorius was only in the fourteenth year of his age;
Serena, the mother of his bride, deferred, by art or persuasion,
the consummation of the royal nuptials;
Maria died a virgin, after she had been ten years a wife;
and the chastity of the emperor was secured by the coldness,
or perhaps the debility, of his constitution.
His subjects, who attentively studied the character of their young sovereign,
discovered that Honorius was without passions, and consequently without talents;
and that his feeble and languid disposition was alike incapable of discharging the duties of his rank,
or of enjoying the pleasures of his age.
In his early youth he made some progress in the exercises of riding and drawing the bow;
but he soon relinquished these fatiguing occupations,
and the amusement of feeding poultry became the serious and daily care of the monarch of the West,
who resigned the reins of empire to the firm and skilful hand of his guardian Stilicho.
The experience of history will countenance the suspicion that a prince who was born in the purple
received a worse education than the meanest peasant of his dominions,
and that the ambitious minister suffered him to attain the age of manhood
without attempting to excite his courage or to enlighten his understanding.
The predecessors of Honorius were accustomed to animate by their example,
or at least by their presence, the valour of the legions;
and the dates of their laws attest the perpetual activity of their motions through the provinces of the Roman world.
But the son of Theodosius passed the slumber of his life a captive in his palace,
a stranger in his country, and the patient, almost the indifferent, spectator of the ruin of the Western empire,
which was repeatedly attacked, and finally subverted, by the arms of the barbarians.
In the eventful history of a reign of twenty-eight years,
it will seldom be necessary to mention the name
of the emperor Honorius.
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
09/22/2013 5:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
Theodosius reigned 402-450, a very long time, however he was a baby when he was elevated to the throne. During his reign copper coins were generally poorly made. Collectors find it difficult to find a nice piece.  This type was also issued in the names of Arcadius and Honorius. It is attributed to 401-403 and must be an issue celebrating his elevation. It is striking as an early facing bust in copper--the type of bust that became standard for Byzantine gold. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
Very nice example of a difficult period for the collector of bronzes (ie me).
This coin is important for what it shows about the nature of the Imperial system.
Appearances had become all important. The 'glorious' name of Theodosius and a portrait of a 'warlike' prince was enough to satisfy the needs of the State.
The fact that he was an infant (at best a 'toddler') was probably a fact which never crossed the minds of the people who bothered to examine the coins they exchanged.
Men such as Stilicho and Aetius handled the weighty issues of war and peace, while the Emperors absorbed themselves with more important issues. Whether the people were conducting their prayers in the approved manner. The empire was eternal (ie unsinkable !)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4778 Posts |
My Honorius AR siliqua would have been current during the reign of Theodosius II. Minted in Milan from 395(or 398, can't remember) to 402 AD.  Edited by VisigothKing
09/23/2013 1:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
A most excellent and rare selection !
I had been prepared to punish everyone with more Gibbon as the entries (and comments) had again slowed down. As your punishments were already selected for today I might as well go ahead. Today a 'double' dosage.
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
Chapter XXVI
Battle of Hadrianople, A.D. 378. August 9th
On the ninth of August,
a day which has deserved to be marked among the most inauspicious of the Roman calendar,
the emperor Valens, leaving, under a strong guard, his baggage and military treasure,
marched from Hadrianople to attack the Goths, who were encamped about twelve miles from the city.
By some mistake of the orders, or some ignorance of the ground,
the right wing or column of cavalry arrived in sight of the enemy whilst the left was still at a considerable distance;
the soldiers were compelled, in the sultry heat of summer, to precipitate their pace;
and the line of battle was formed with tedious confusion and irregular delay.
The Gothic cavalry had been detached to forage in the adjacent country;
and Fritigern still continued to practise his customary arts.
He despatched messengers of peace, made proposals, required hostages, and wasted the hours, till the Romans,
exposed without shelter to the burning rays of the sun, were exhausted by thirst, hunger, and intolerable fatigue.
The emperor was persuaded to send an ambassador to the Gothic camp;
the zeal of Richomer, who alone had courage to accept the dangerous commission, was applauded;
and the count of the domestics, adorned with the splendid ensigns of his dignity,
had proceeded some way in the space between the two armies when he was suddenly recalled by the alarm of battle.
The hasty and imprudent attack was made by Bacurius the Iberian,
who commanded a body of archers and targeteers:
and, as they advanced with rashness, they retreated with loss and disgrace.
In the same moment the flying squadrons of Alatheus and Saphrax,
whose return was anxiously expected by the general of the Goths, descended like a whirlwind from the hills,
swept across the plain, and added new terrors to the tumultuous but irresistible charge of the barbarian host.
The event of the battle of Hadrianople, so fatal to Valens and to the empire,
may be described in a few words:
the Roman cavalry fled; the infantry was abandoned, surrounded, and cut in pieces.
The most skilful evolutions, the firmest courage,
are scarcely sufficient to extricate a body of foot encompassed on an open plain by superior numbers of horse;
but the troops of Valens, oppressed by the weight of the enemy and their own fears,
were crowded into a narrow space, where it was impossible for them to extend their ranks,
or even to use, with effect, their swords and javelins.
In the midst of tumult, of slaughter, and of dismay, the emperor,
deserted by his guards, and wounded, as it was supposed, with an arrow,
sought protection among the Lancearii and the Mattiarii, who still maintained their ground with some appearance of order and firmness.
His faithful generals, Trajan and Victor, who perceived his danger,
loudly exclaimed that all was lost unless the person of the emperor could be saved.
Some troops, animated by their exhortation, advanced to his relief:
they found only a bloody spot, covered with a heap of broken arms and mangled bodies,
without being able to discover their unfortunate prince either among the living or the dead.
Their search could not indeed be successful, if there is any truth in the circumstances with which some historians have related the death of the emperor.
By the care of his attendants, Valens was removed from the field of battle to a neighbouring cottage,
where they attempted to dress his wound and to provide for his future safety.
But this humble retreat was instantly surrounded by the enemy;
they tried to force the door; they were provoked by a discharge of arrows from the roof;
till at length, impatient of delay, they set fire to a pile of dry faggots, and consumed the cottage with the Roman emperor and his train.
Valens perished in the flames;
and a youth, who dropped from the window, alone escaped, to attest the melancholy tale
and to inform the Goths of the inestimable prize which they had lost by their own rashness.
A great number of brave and distinguished officers perished in the battle of Hadrianople,
which equalled in the actual loss, and far surpassed in the fatal consequences, the misfortune which Rome had formerly sustained in the fields of Cannae.
Two master-generals of the cavalry and infantry,
two great officers of the palace,
and thirty-five tribunes, were found among the slain;
and the death of Sebastian might satisfy the world that he was the victim as well as the author of the public calamity.
Above two-thirds of the Roman army were destroyed:
and the darkness of the night was esteemed a very favourable circumstance, as it served to conceal the flight of the multitude,
and to protect the more orderly retreat of Victor and Richomer,
who alone, amidst the general consternation,
maintained the advantage of calm courage and regular discipline.
What followed soon after this catastrophe is not often discussed in Roman History 101
Massacre of the Gothic youth in Asia, A.D. 378.
Whatever may have been the just measure of the calamities of Europe,
there was reason to fear that the same calamities would soon extend to the peaceful countries of Asia.
The sons of the Goths had been judiciously distributed through the cities of the East,
and the arts of education were employed to polish and subdue the native fierceness of their temper.
In the space of about twelve years their numbers had continually increased;
and the children who in the first emigration were sent over the Hellespont had attained with rapid growth the strength and spirit of perfect manhood.
It was impossible to conceal from their knowledge the events of the Gothic war;
and, as those daring youths had not studied the language of dissimulation,
they betrayed their wish,
their desire,
perhaps their intentions to emulate the glorious example of their fathers
The danger of the times seemed to justify the jealous suspicions of the provincials;
and these suspicions were admitted as unquestionable evidence
that the Goths of Asia had formed a secret and dangerous conspiracy against the public safety.
The death of Valens had left the East without a sovereign;
and Julius,
who filled the important station of master-general of the troops,
with a high reputation of diligence and ability, thought it his duty to consult the senate of Constantinople,
which he considered, during the vacancy of the throne, as the representative council of the nation.
As soon as he had obtained the discretionary power of acting as he should judge most expedient for the good of the republic,
he assembled the principal officers and privately concerted effectual measures for the execution of his bloody design.
An order was immediately promulgated that, on a stated day,
the Gothic youth should assemble in the capital cities of their respective provinces;
and, as a report was industriously circulated that they were summoned to receive a liberal gift of lands and money,
the pleasing hope allayed the fury of their resentment,
and perhaps suspended the motions of the conspiracy.
On the appointed day the unarmed crowd of the Gothic youth was carefully collected in the square or forum;
the streets and avenues were occupied by the Roman troops,
and the roofs of the houses were covered with archers and slingers.
At the same hour, in all the cities of the East, the signal was given of indiscriminate slaughter;
and the provinces of Asia were delivered,
by the cruel prudence of Julius, from a domestic enemy,
who in a few months might have carried fire and sword from the Hellespont to the Euphrates.
The urgent consideration of the public safety may undoubtedly authorise the violation of every positive law.
How far that
or any other consideration may operate to dissolve the natural obligations of humanity and justice,
is a doctrine of which I still desire to remain ignorant.
Under the circumstances of National Emergency the "foreign exchange" students were slaughtered en masse. Sir Edward while he declines to pass judgement lets us know he finds the subject very disturbing ...... So should we all
Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
09/23/2013 4:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5180 Posts |
Don't have anything from the 5th century (or 3rd, 6th or 7th). Yet, now that I think carefully over what I do have, I can enter anyway (more for a mental ticked point than for any actual contesting - they're awful). Also, just for the record, both coins have been posted on this forum before. (In fact I'm just copying the old photos.) First: a coin that would've been the "normal" sort of money for the baker.   Arcadius AE4, Salus Reipublicae. Constantinople mint, late 4th century. Not much to look at (and sorry for the photo size). And second... one for the "as alien for the sleepers as their money would be for the baker" category.   City of Antiocheia, Roman provincial issue (forgot the denomination). Zeus sitting on chair, Greek lettering on either flank/head of Zeus right. Judging by the lettering style, it was probably minted at or near the far latest end of that series. So late 1st or possibly early 2nd century; if I didn't miscount my dates, almost exactly as far (though slightly less) removed from Decius as Decius is from Theodosius II. And please forgive me for my poor grasp of ancient geography, but I don't think Antiocheia is all that far from Ephesus, either. Still, I very much suspect that anyone from the time of Decius would be very surprised at yellow brass coins - especially with Greek gods on them (as, pagan or no pagan, they have probably long since switched to the Roman ones by that point). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
Never a need to apologize for your collection. Every collection and for that matter every collector is different. I have mentioned before that years ago (long before ebay) many Roman Provincial coins sold for premium prices. I clearly remember someone proudly showing me a bronze that looked like something he had found in the side of the road. "Only $100 !" I swallowed hard and said 'Very nice' ...... well the coin worked for him ..... somehow. That is all that really counts ! Thank you for your entry ! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
These are probably the only two I have that fit this category. Decius (A.D. 249-251) AR Antoninianus, A.D. 249-251, Rome, 22mm, 4.76g, 45°, RIC IV 16. Obv: IMP C M Q TRAIANVS DECIVS AVG. Radiate and cuirassed bust right. Rev: GENIVS EXERC ILLVRICIANI. Genius standing left with patera and cornucopia, standard right.  Theodosius II (A.D. 408-450) AU Solidus, A.D. 441-450, Constantinople, 21.7mm, 4.43g, 180°, RIC 323. Obv: D N THEODOSIVS P F AVG. Pearl-diademed, helmeted, cuirassed bust facing right, holding spear over shoulder & shield decorated with horseman. Rev: IMP XXXXII COS XVII P P. Constantinopolis seated left holding cross on globe & scepter, star in left field; CONOB in ex.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
Maybe my theo II wouldn't have been present in the shop of the baker. It would have bought alot of bread I imagine. :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
Much like a hundred dollar bill (more akin probably to a five hundred !) the baker probably had a few around....... somewhere.
Safely buried away deep down under the ovens in a sealed clay pot !
At some point the tax man would be demanding that he pay up.
As the baker no doubt had a very respectable sized 'shoppe', possibly with an upper floor where he lived or even rented out apartments, the tax bill was probably a major expense. My professor of 35 years ago (when he wasn't punishing us with Gibbon) made the interesting observation that when the Goths (even the Vandals) established their rule within the western provinces they had the solid support of the merchants and land owners.
The barbarians might have been 'unwashed' but they did not tax you to death. By the 4th & 5th century Imperial taxes had become downright confiscatory and a burden so heavy that those who were the targets found barbarian rule to be a 'blessing' in disguise.
Eventually the attitudes of hyphenated Romans (provincials) toward the emperor became downright hostile. The loss in revenue was a major reason for the decline of the Roman Legions. The military was "the" major government expense and once the emperor could not force people to fork over all their profits ..... they were forced to hire immigrant mercenaries.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
This has to be one of the most interesting posts I have ever read. Brilliant. I dont have much sadly that fits the topic. Below is a solidus of honorius that I have, I am sorry about the terrible picture quality, taken with my Iphone. I have a Decius denarius somewhere too which I will post later ..   By the way Rvfvs I still dont have your address to send the Probus .. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
You certainly have more in the one solidus of Honorius than in the very few miserable AE's of the period that I have scattered about my home. Again the baker would surely have had a few for emergencies (when grain was rationed) or if the tax man threatened to 'bake' the proprietor unless he "rendered unto Caesar". If you 'google' me you might find your way into the dark depths of ebay. From there you might shout up a message from the basement. Edited by FVRIVS RVFVS
09/24/2013 07:47 am
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Replies: 119 / Views: 14,795 |
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Posted 09/22/2013 12:51 pm
