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Frequent Doubling In 40% Kennedy Halves?

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the.silver.standard's Avatar
United States
17 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2007  7:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add the.silver.standard to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello all!

I have a collection of about 700 Kennedy half dollars from 1965-1969, and have just recently started searching through them with a 10x loupe.

I have only made it through about 100 or so, but have already found 7 instances of pretty clear doubling: a few with nearly all of the reverse shelf doubled, two with doubling on Kennedy's ear, one with a double of Kennedy's profile below the chin.

Many of these are pretty darn obvious, and though I recently learned (through this forum ;-) ) that doubling does not command a premium, it seems like a REALLY high rate of Machine Doubling. Did the mint have trouble with this coin? Was it a result of the new 40% silver composition?

(Of course, I pulled these from circulation, so they may never have been searched through for errors at all before, hence the high rate)

Thank you all for your time... I am a po' collector who focuses on Ike and Kennedy silver proofs, so the more I learn about the business strikes, the better off I'll be.
Pillar of the Community
coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2007  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Machine Doubling and doubled dies are completely different from one another. Machine Doubling is the "shelf" doubling you describe and is not worth a premium value. It is very common, and in some years of some denominations is actually difficult to avoid.

Doubled dies are the valuable ones and carry some premium value no matter what, as long as they are strong enough that it doesn't take high magnification and a finder chart to see the doubling.
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the.silver.standard's Avatar
United States
17 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2007  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the.silver.standard to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many of these are pretty darn obvious, and though I recently learned (through this forum ;-) ) that doubling does not command a premium, it seems like a REALLY high rate of Machine Doubling. Did the mint have trouble with this coin? Was it a result of the new 40% silver composition?

I understand the difference between doubling and doubled dies. That was not the question, but I appreciate the response. Perhaps if I put it simpler...

I am just curious if this coin was more prone to Machine Doubling (whether because of silver material, etc...). The rate at which I am finding these is much more than any other circulated coin denom.
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the.silver.standard's Avatar
United States
17 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2007  10:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the.silver.standard to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But I think I do understand what you were saying... I must specify "machine" doubling and not just say "doubling" so that nobody gets confused.
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the.silver.standard's Avatar
United States
17 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2007  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the.silver.standard to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I guess I should have known that help is difficult to come by if you are a new collector... instead of help or opinion, I merely got a curt comment on how much I did not know from one who seems to be a typically unpleasant poster.

I will do the research myself and no longer frequent this forum as my interests are clearly too simple, uneducated, and uninteresting for this forum.
Valued Member
United States
280 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  09:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gatzdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it makes you feel better OP, I read your thread, but didn't post because I don't know the answer. But I know what you mean about how hard it is for a novice to find help. I'm relatively young and many things in this hobby are learned by experience. It would be nice if the experienced ones helped out us novices a little bit.

I've been searching kennedies for some time now and am quite surprised that I can still find franklins and walking liberties. Have you had any success with those too?
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm figuring your comments have to be about me since I am the only one who replied.

First off, I don't know how you saw my reply as being a "curt comment" - I replied to the post in as educative a manner as anyone could. I am seen as "unpleasant" because I am to the point and don't have any shyness about telling people that they've found a coin considered a non-collectible non-error non-premium value coin. If that makes me undesirable, then perhaps you and others might want to seek education where people will lie to you and get your hopes up that what you have found is worth something it is not.

I did specifically answer your question by stating, " Machine Doubling is the "shelf" doubling you describe and is not worth a premium value. It is very common, and in some years of some denominations is actually difficult to avoid."

I cannot specify that this is the case with 40% silver Kennedy half dollars because I do not search them or collect them. I was making a general statement about all coins in that Machine Doubling is very common in certain areas of any series. The Mercury dime series is loaded with them. Lincoln cents are very notorious with Machine Doubling from 1955-1958, then from 1968-1971. Nobody knows the specific answer as to why, it's a simple observation.

I simply do not understand why my posts are being seen as non-helpful...I answer the questions. I'm not going to waste your time and mine telling you your coins are worth anything they aren't, and I'm not going to lie to you, even if that would make you feel better about my response.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19935 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Listen to coppercoins, he's one of the top collectors/experts in these forums. He knows what he's talking about, you should feel fortunate that he replied to your thread.
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Valued Member
United States
280 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gatzdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But the question was specifically asking if Machine Doubling was unusually common in the 40% Ag Kennedy halves. I personally don't know, but I imagine it was either unusually common, or the source of OP's coins was from someone who seemed to want to collect them.

When I read the OP's post, I thought it was very clear that they understood the difference between Machine Doubling and Double Die and the OP already understood that what they had were Machine Doubled Kennedy halves.
Valued Member
ziggy9's Avatar
United States
499 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2007  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
though many of us know that shelf doubling is a form of Machine Doubling not everyone that reads this forum is fully educated about this. the way I read it coppercoins was clarifying this for anyone that reads this thread, and isn't that what education is all about?

Ziggy
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livingdinasaur's Avatar
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2007  01:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the.silver.standard, I, like you am a "newbie", and make many mistakes, many due to "semantics". There is a difference between "hub-doubling, hub-doubled doubling, Mechanical Doubling, and manyy other types of "doubling", and not all are the same. It took me a while to learn the difference between "Hub-doubling", and shelf, Mechanical Doubling. It "looks a lot alike, but that is as far as it goes. Just like looking at "fools gold, and gold. One is a metal, that when hit, flattens, the other will break into blavk dust. It is known as Iron-pyrites, and looks just like gold. The case with a doubled-die, as opposed to a shelf, or mechanixcal doubling, is very apparent, after one gets used to seing it. We all went thru this same stage, and most of the newcomers, will too. There was no "curtness" in Chucks post. Quiet the contrary. He is a very well informed young man with a wealth of knowledge in the cent varieties, among others. You are new, and will get your turn, later as you continue. Be glad you weren't greeted by being called a "liar" with less that two hours on board! I was! I got even, too. I called him a cheater. He usually waits a couple weeks before jumping on someone, (they say). Don't give up so easily. It is all in fun, no matter what is said, "as long as they say it with a smile"!
Dick
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BRUCE 1947's Avatar
United States
834 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2007  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BRUCE 1947 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silver.
I do hope you stay, this is a very good forum and there is a lot of very knowledgeable members here. Now I have said many time here and on other forums how I feel about Chuck (Coppercoins) and that I am a big fan of his. And there are also times I do not agree with him, I do not care about the value of what I collect because I collect what I like for the love of the hobby. You must remember this forum is all about an opinion you have yours others have theirs, please stay and just try to get as much knowledge as you can. Believe me there will come a time when you visit here that when you see Chuck,Rick, Dave and others post you will want to see what they have to say.

Bruce.
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