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 Replies: 137 / Views: 18,644 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
4944 Posts |
Thanks Ray, Will the increased magnification from the extensions increase the overall size of my images as well? Or will it just enhance sharpness, and detail in the images? Or maybe both; Image size and detail?
I am shooting in Large format. Not RAW.
Edited by Canadian-Banknotes
01/25/2014 10:54 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The whole purpose of additional magnification is to increase the size of the images. That maximizes the apparent sharpness increase by downsizing, reduces your need for additional lenses for detail images, and makes you cooler.  RAW shots, at least with a Canon and afaik, introduce as close to zero processing as humanly possible and what it *does* add in-camera is reversible in post. Picture Style (think that's the name) is an example. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
You probably stated answers in a previous post, but I have a few questions...
1) What aperture setting did you use for the 18-55?
2) Same question for the 75EL?
3) What in-camera sharpening settings are you using for each?
4) What crop factor are you using for each?
5) What downsize factor are you using for each?
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
It just occurred to me, Ray - how do you work in AV Mode with a lens which doesn't communicate its' aperture?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
With my D5000, I can only use M because the firmware doesn't assume I have a manual lens attached if it doesn't sense a chipped lens. The D7000 is far more sophisticated, and is able to run every lens type in the appropriate mode (obviously, no AF on manual lenses).
The Canons are in-between, but in a good way. The firmware assumes that if no communication to a chipped lens is available, then a manual lens is attached. It then leaves the aperture alone if in Av mode, and simply takes what you give it for light level, compensating with shutter/ISO, or just shutter if ISO is fixed.
Every auto mode (Av, Tv, etc) will push the exposure up until the brightest white highlights seen by the selected AE mode are saturated. For my cents, this often results in greatly oversaturated reds, since red is dominant. But even for silver, which is essentially grey with near equal RGB, highlights will saturate. I suppose the firmware is attempting to maximize dynamic range, but in a bad way for coins. This is where Ev compensation comes in. When tethered in LV, the AE exposure mode defaults to the area encompassed by the zoom window (white box signifying the 100% pixel area). Moving the window around results in a change in shutter speed (if ISO is fixed) based on the type of metering employed. I find that evaluative metering works best here, as other methods will occasionally result in an unstable metering if there is too much brightness variation across the zoom window. You can use this characteristic of the software to adjust the effective brightness of the image. I use it to ensure I don't overexpose by moving the zoom window to the area of the coin with the brightest highlights, or overall brightest area. Knowing that the software/firmware will likely target the highlights to be over-exposed, I use a small Ev value to reduce/eliminate the overexposure.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Wow. That's more work than I do in full Manual with no EV. Then again, we work primarily in different issues and I remember the few full Red Lincolns I've shot presented serious challenges with highlights. Foreheads and cheekbones are particularly irritating, and far more prominent than problem areas on Morgans.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
Quote:
1) What aperture setting did you use for the 18-55?
2) Same question for the 75EL?
3) What in-camera sharpening settings are you using for each?
4) What crop factor are you using for each?
5) What downsize factor are you using for each? 1) F8 2) F8 3) None that I know of. 4) Could you expand on this one, I'm not sure what you mean. 5) These are full size images. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
Quote:
Wow. That's more work than I do in full Manual with no EV. Then again, we work primarily in different issues and I remember the few full Red Lincolns I've shot presented serious challenges with highlights. Foreheads and cheekbones are particularly irritating, and far more prominent than problem areas on Morgans. It's actually no extra work at all. I use the zoom window for critical focus anyway, so I just make sure the window is over the brightest area of the coin. I set the Ev compensation up-front to -.33EV, so no work there. And the images come out perfectly exposed most every time without having to review and re-shoot. Quote:
1) F8
2) F8
3) None that I know of.
4) Could you expand on this one, I'm not sure what you mean.
5) These are full size images. For the sharpening, if you are not aware of what the camera is doing, it's probably set to the default "3" setting. If so, this is pretty aggressive. You might want to check it out. The setting may be lens dependent (manual vs chipped lens). OK, I see that the forum is downsizing the full-size image to fit to the screen max, but you are not filling the sensor with the coin, so you are cropping the image to show just the coin. Did you crop them to the same size? If so, this implies you are getting the exact same magnification with the 18-55 vs the 75mm. Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
Quote:
For the sharpening, if you are not aware of what the camera is doing, it's probably set to the default "3" setting. If so, this is pretty aggressive. You might want to check it out. The setting may be lens dependent (manual vs chipped lens). How would I change this setting? Quote:
OK, I see that the forum is downsizing the full-size image to fit to the screen max, but you are not filling the sensor with the coin, so you are cropping the image to show just the coin. Did you crop them to the same size? If so, this implies you are getting the exact same magnification with the 18-55 vs the 75mm. Usually the 18-55 was about 300px larger (In width and height) then the EL-Nikkor. I couldn't fill the sensor with either lens. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
When Zoombrowser is running, in the lower middle of the control screen you'll see the "Shooting Menu". The first entry is the "Picture Style". Directly below that it says "Detail Set". The numbers in the Detail Set section show your settings for Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, and Color Tone. Double-click on the Detail Set text and it will allow you to make changes to these, as appropriate for your shooting situation.
Since the two images (ELN and 18-55) are the same size in the comparison shot, one or both of them must have been resized, so are not full-size image(s). Did you downsize the 18-55, or both ELN and 18-55, or did you perhaps retake the 18-55 at the same magnification as the ELN, or ?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
Quote:
The numbers in the Detail Set section show your settings for Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, and Color Tone. Double-click on the Detail Set text and it will allow you to make changes to these, as appropriate for your shooting situation. What would you say is a good number to use? Quote:
Since the two images (ELN and 18-55) are the same size in the comparison shot, one or both of them must have been resized, so are not full-size image(s). Did you downsize the 18-55, or both ELN and 18-55, or did you perhaps retake the 18-55 at the same magnification as the ELN, or ? Both were re sized in the comparison shot. The 18-55 was at higher magnification, so I had to reduce the size of it more than the El-Nikkor. Edited by Canadian-Banknotes
01/26/2014 5:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
My preference is to do no in-camera sharpening, so 0. I also prefer to process jpg with low contrast, and then increase contrast in post. This maximizes dynamic range during the RAW conversion. I usually use -4 for bright coins, -2 for dull or dark coins. Similar for saturation, but in general Canon undersaturates so either 0 or -2. Set tone to 0 since you take care of that with white balance correction.
So now back to the questions I asked before:
4) What crop factor are you using for each?
5) What downsize factor are you using for each?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
Thanks Ray, I will have to play around with the sharpness setting. Quote:
So now back to the questions I asked before:
4) What crop factor are you using for each?
5) What downsize factor are you using for each? The images I have been posting are not downsized at all (Only the small comparison example I did between the two lenses). Here are two identical shots, the second one has only been cropped. Image Sizes Original: 3888 x 2592 Cropped: 1072 x 1068   |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4944 Posts |
Those shots were taken at:
Apperature: F8 ISO: 400 Exposure: 1/200
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
I was mostly interested in the comparison shots, trying to figure out the differences between them.
Was the latest shot using the 75EL? It looks slightly OOF.
Why ISO 400? You'll get the best shadow detail, and thus dynamic range, using ISO100.
edited to say...I should have said "you'll get the best dynamic range, and thus shadow detail, using ISO100". Gotta get those cause/effect relationships right...
Edited by rmpsrpms
01/26/2014 8:38 pm
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Replies: 137 / Views: 18,644 |
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