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 Replies: 63 / Views: 8,809 |
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Valued Member
 United States
332 Posts |
Thanks for all your hard work SsuperDdave.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
My pleasure. 1921's are a labor of love for me.  Get the detail images of the dot and those two die cracks I mentioned, posted over at VAMworld. I'm watching your thread there, too. |
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
Sometimes you have to bump your thread and ask again. Someone has to know what this is, if anything ask them if you should send it to LVA.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
 If no one on VAMworld is recognizing the crack on the obverse and there appears to be displacement, maybe it should go to LVA. |
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Valued Member
United States
332 Posts |
Thanks 7TF and dave700x, I'll go ahead and do that. Also I will post new pictures over there that give a closer view of the coin.
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
I am not good with 1921's because I have never really messed with them. I did just do a little more searching and found that what you have is a normal 16 berry reverse. http://www.vamworld.com/16+Berry+ReverseThere is no dot on the coin. It is normal for all 16 berry reverse dies. It is also referred to as the D-2 reverse. There are still hundreds of VAMs it could be. It is going to take someone clicking on every single one to find it if it is listed. I have a feeling it is listed or someone would have said something by now. I could be wrong and none of them feel like looking through hundreds of VAMs to figure it out. If I have time later tonight I will click on a bunch and try to figure it out but without knowing if there is any doubling in E PLURIBUS UNUM or profile doubling, or any other attributesother than die cracks it might not be easy to spot it without clicking on every VAM. Even then we still might need better closeups with more lighting of the scribbling scratches, if you look at the scribbling scratches listed you will see that you need a very good camera to capture these. If you don't have one you could always send your coin to VAMslab and have them find the VAM and photograph it for you. There is always the chance that the cracks were not used to attribute the VAM but that is highly unlikely for a 1921 because they are known for having lots of die cracks, that is the reason for the die crack guides. No other years have the die crack guides and cracks usually do not help attribute a VAM. LVA only lists Die Breaks not die cracks. Some of the members on VAMworld decided to make the die crack guides to make it easier for attributing the 1921's. So look at the D-2 reverses and click on every one of them until you find a match to your coin. There are many VAMs that only show a plate photo from when the original coin was listed like this one http://www.vamworld.com/1921-P+VAM-3AJ So you can see that it is just going to take some time with the coin in hand looking at VAMworld for a match. Make sure and use a loop to look at all of the lettering for very minor doubling and such. Kris Edited by 7TF
12/24/2013 2:05 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
For the record, 7TF, I went through every single 1921-P page at VAMworld as part of my research for this coin. I even looked through the D1 listings for mis-categorized reverses. This dot is not represented.
It's not time to send this one to Leroy. Please, no - the man is in his advanced years and swamped as it is; it's our responsibility to expend every possible effort to avoid increasing his workload. The next step - as distasteful as it seems - is to get accurate-enough images of the scribbles to do a comparison study on that basis. It's very likely a match will be found. Such imagery is not easy, though - I could probably manage it with my equipment but the average, casual photographer is going to have difficulty.
Scribbles were an aberration in the VAMming process when they were discovered a few years ago (I was looking at them casually a few months before they were first publicized, but I was much less a part of the VAMming world then and didn't mention it in public). They were originally considered in somewhat whimsical fashion, but now it's obvious that they will be the key to any possible die pair classification for the enormous quantity of 1921 dies used.
But it's going to be a huge job.
Amnight, I am not normally one to make an offer like this on the Forum, but would you consider sending this coin to me for imaging? I can create images of it in such detail that it will forever be an accurate, complete record of the identifying characteristics of whichever variety it might be. One more step down the road in the largest single date VAMming effort.
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Valued Member
United States
332 Posts |
SsuperDdave, I will gladly send you the coin. Just give me an address and I will send it. Also, thank you for making the offer! |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Excellent; I'll send you my address which will also give you my email. Let's wait until after the Holidays, just in case of delivery provider confusion. Nobody wants to be working right now, least of all USPS. |
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Valued Member
United States
332 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
SuperDdave, I am not claiming to be an expert on these or any other VAMs. I did look through most of the list and don't see anything like this coin listed. The reason I said the dot is normal is because on this page http://www.vamworld.com/16+Berry+Reverse it shows what a 16 berry reverse looks like and it has the dot on the berry. I just assumed they all do. Kris |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: The reason I said the dot is normal is because on this page http://www.vamworld.com/16+Berry+Reverse it shows what a 16 berry reverse looks like and it has the dot on the berry. I just assumed they all do. In truth, I never even thought to look at that specific image since that's not a VAM detail page. Never even realized the D2 example image had the dot, which makes this all the more peculiar. I'm going to contact the person who created that page, whom I know from VAMworld, to see if he remembers where he got that image. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
That's amazing, 7TF. All of my  regarding this coin, and you just casually throw out a breakthrough fact in passing. I messaged the guy at VAMworld, and we'll see what he says. |
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
I am here to help. It is something fun to pass time when my other hobbies are not keeping me busy. It will be nice to find out what VAM this is. I have been checking back daily just to see if anyone has solved the mystery yet. |
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Valued Member
United States
220 Posts |
Just my Two Cents worth, but I suspect the "dot" is in the hub. I see C4 reverses all the time with this "dot", which is a hub thing. I realize the subject coin is a D2 reverse, but stranger things have happened. |
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Replies: 63 / Views: 8,809 |
First Page
Posted 12/20/2013 3:21 pm
