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90% Vs Graded Morgan Dollars

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ghostrider's Avatar
United States
1116 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2013  10:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ghostrider to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was purchasing some ASE for Christmas presents and some 90% dimes for myself at a LCS that I infrequently visit when the owner was talking with another client and was saying that people who purchase ASE or 90% are not true investors and will probably never see a return on their investment while purchasers of MS graded Morgan dollars who hold on to them for about 5 years will see a return on their investment.

Since I purchase ASE, 90%, and occasionally graded Morgan and Peace dollars I didn't know how to take his comments.

What do other forum members think of this?
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2013  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I dont expect a huge run on prices for common Morgans, but between the two the Morgans have the better shot of bringing a return.
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Nathancrh1's Avatar
Canada
785 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2013  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nathancrh1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think Morgans unless in the ever sought after MS66 or higher grades are to plentiful to be a solid investment. Many millions were made and most never circulated. As for the junk silver the price has dropped 1/3 in the last year so I think that speaks for itself. Coin collecting really should be kept as more of a hobby than an investment so I my opinion is buy what appeals best to you.
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zxcccxz's Avatar
Canada
5417 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2013  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zxcccxz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Morgan dollars are the most popular US series (Debatable but true). In the short term they'll bring you a much better return (Even if silver spikes, their prices will still remain $10-$15 over melt, giving you a better return).
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United States
3184 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
get both!!
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A nice bump in silver wouldn't hurt either.....also depends on where one plans on selling it.
Edited by edweather
12/27/2013 12:49 am
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
872 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  07:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ive been collecting for quite some time. The good thing about collecting is that YOU collect what YOU want

Just because one person speaks his mind, without any sensitivity towards the people around him means that he isn't a true dealer. I personally would be concerned about his ethics.
A true dealer isn't a "yes" man, but he knows how to adjust the conversations in order to make a sale and profit from it.

I had the opportunity to purchase some boxed, graded and ungraded ASE's over the last six months from an agency. I was given very decent prices on coins, and I am happy with the results. But as of late, I have seen some of the ASE's hitting rock bottom. Some are near spot of silver or slightly above. With the mint pricing, and silver fluctuating, its tough to see a profit on ASE's unless the mint significantly cuts back on the numbers produced. Its a silver coin, but, it doesn't seem to hold the collectors interest long enough to be hoarded and supplies dry up quickly to drive the collectibility and price up. There are a few rare ASE's, like the 1999 in MS/PF 70, but most ASE's from PF/MS 69 and down seem a little under valued.

Morgan dollars are my favorite coin, and I do collect them for myself. I will sell one to upgrade to a higher MS variety of that year and mint mark, and its a rewarding experience. One thing I will add is, for a Quality Set - one that is Mint State - a complete set will take many years and a lot of money to do so. One could easily hand pick a MS/PF ASE set and call it complete well before a Morgan Collector can call the Morgan set done.

The Morgan dollars have the same amount of silver, its the rarity and age of that silver and dated coin that makes it impressive. Many Morgans have the ability to tone with age and I am a proud owner of over 100 toned Morgan dollars. These would fetch quite a premium over what I paid for them. Morgans are quite marketable, even after 130+ years.

The dealer in question probably grew up around the time Morgans were extremely popular, and that is where his foothold is. There is still room for profit on most Morgan dollars, even if silver is quite low. Add in Rarity, Variety of mint marks and VAM's and its a coin that will be collected long after we are gone. That doesn't make his comment right or correct. Collecting is a hobby - not his opinion of the hobby in general.

If the dealer is considering buyers of ASE's are "investors vice collectors" that is nonsense. The investor would be paying way too much money for the silver ounce and the ability to sell it for its content will likely never be seen in my lifetime. For the investors of silver, its simply buying $5,000+ USD of silver at or below 18.00 USD and selling that purchase when the market is near 30.00 USD an ounce, which is rare. If you do the math that amoun is significant enough to sell the silver and then wait for the silver prices to drop to near 18.00/oz again, then, purchase a significant amount of silver once again. Thats an investors job. To make money. Some people can do both collect and invest, but let me tell you, it is not an easy task. You have to stay focused and separate your funds and mindset when making purchases.

In the end, its about what you have planned for your collection. Whether thats using the coins to sell as required when your retired, or passing them onto a member of the Family who is either a collector or investor will be up to you.

Everyone has an opinion, some stink more than others, but in the end, its your money, your life and desires.




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noD's Avatar
United States
1584 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I somewhat disagree.
When you talk about return on investment consider 2 main strategies, buy and hold or active management.

Bullion should not be IMO a buy and hold commodity. Bullion should be actively managed, bought low and sold high to realize a good or even great return.

Rare coins fall more into the buy and hold category.

The book value of slabbed common date MS63 morgans, for example, has gone up generally, but trying to realize much of a profit can be tough. The same is true for most common date mid range BU coins. It's tougher still for circulated common dates.

I believe only true low mintage/condition rarity coins of types in high demand
have a good chance of a good return on investment.

I agree, buy/collect the coins you like. I collect coins because I love the look, feel, and history associated.

Coin collecting as an investment is a tricky business.

Valued Member
Avshater22's Avatar
United States
337 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Avshater22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert on investing or anything but as I see it there is two ways, well I guess three if you think silver will just be worthless one day, to look at investing in silver.
1 you are looking at holding on to your silver for 10-20 years, possibly more, in hopes of silver rising due to lack of production and needs for industrial uses which is bound to happen with the rate we are using it versus the rate it's pulled from the earth and with the ever increasing population of the world is only getting worse.
2 you are investing in silver for fear that the economy will collapse making fiat money worthless and you want some sort of bartering currency to use other then good. Silver has always been used for thousands of years as a form of currency and unless the people just start killing everyone in an economic collapse silver with be very helpful in trading because it's always been viewed as something valuable.
Those are the two reasons I can think of for investing in silver while #1 is the main reason I've been investing because it really just a matter of time before silver spikes because of its current consumption rate around the world.
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So the dealer just assumed that you were an investor? Not a collector?

I think what's happening today is that new collectors/investors are getting into a game that is changing. Before there weren't all of these collectible bullion. It makes the buyer never want to sell them, and it has an effect on how bullion should really work. People are too attached to the designs that they keep them, do not circulate them, which I think is the goal of the USMint.

This dealer displays an elitist attitude. He's probably just sick of seeing all of these woodwork silver nuts and wants to return to the good ol' days of collecting Morgans. I would too if I saw it day in day out. It's one thing to suggest the alternative, but quite another to just shut out opposing viewpoints on it. This guy sounds to me like one of those pushers who would try to sell you old numismatic gold because of the unfounded (!) fear that the USA will again confiscate gold - which is SILLY because what the gov was doing was confiscating money, not gold per se. Today this action would never be necessary - they'd just print more money. Gold confiscation doesn't even apply to today. If you want to see the REAL gold confiscation, just go into a pawn shop or a seedy gold buyer and you'll see some social engineering going on. Dark magic - you'll see gold disappear right before your eyes using only magic words - I'm not joking, there needs to be better education on karat gold, like a government public service announcement.

Personally, I absolutely agree with the dealer. I'm putting together Canadian dollar year sets in high MS (due to the territory). But that doesn't give the dealer (or anyone) the right to just impose their views onto you. A more suggestive approach is better along with justified reasons. There are also limits to what the average person can buy - so are they not TRUE collectors if they roll hunt or gather from circulation?
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
you are investing in silver for fear that the economy will collapse making fiat money worthless and you want some sort of bartering currency to use other then good.


Silver would be worthless.

If the economy really did collapse in modern society it would be all out chaos. Make no mistake about it the vast majority of the population would be dead. Modern society couldnt possibly be more unprepared to live off the land, not to mention theres too many people to actually do it.

All the sites and advertisements pushing that angel are just trying to make money by scaring people.
Valued Member
Avshater22's Avatar
United States
337 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Avshater22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silver would only be worthless if every country had an economic collapse at the same time which is very unlikely.
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Fat Freddy's Avatar
United States
1200 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fat Freddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
90% is joined at the hip to spot. ASE's are pretty much the same, but may (?) fetch a slight premium over spot if resold. Of the three, MS graded Morgans are
the one that may (?) diverge a bit from spot if resold, but... I think saying that "...purchasers of MS graded Morgan dollar who hold on to them for about 5
years will see a return on their investment" is a presumptuous guess. Nothing about the money we sink into PM's (whether 90%, ASE's or MS graded Morgans)
is guaranteed--not a return in any given time frame or even the principal that we sink into them. The only certainty is that of a constantly changing, fickle and
unpredictable market that governs the prices. If you want to earn a return in 5 years, I think it'd be prudent to turn away from PM's and do it elsewhere.
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2013  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I collect some coins included graded Morgans, and also buy some 90%. The 90% is simply a hedge and to round out a portfolio. I'd be less than smart to not buy some at less than $20 spot. Personally I like silver quarters, dimes, and halves. The 90% has been at $30+ and will be there again. PM is PM and will always be Precious. As far as investing, the stock market is the place to be.
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