So I subscribe to this blog, just a guy who likes to blog about coins. Early last year he wrote a blog about the investment potential of this series. This year ..........
Quote: Those of you who did not follow this 6 coin series, the silver 1oz. coins were Wolf, Moose, Cougar, Bison, Antelope, and Grizzly Bear. Not necessarily in that order. All were short minted at 1,000,000 coins, and released over 3 mint years.
First and foremost, the minting process was seriously flawed. No coins ever were struck that made a 70 grade. The highest was MS69, and those were few and far between. However, once people got used to the MS69 grade as tops, it only made the coins more desirable.
Then came the evidence of some coins deteriorating by developing milk spots. At least initially, this made the hunt for unaffected coins even more intense. By the time the last year was minted in 2013, there was strong evidence that all of these coins were going to develop this dreaded problem given enough time. I personally had invested in over 50 of these MS69 coins during the period.
And sure enough, all of these coins that I had purchased and pulled back to let the market dry up, developed milk spots and blemishes. So the only thing to do was to sell them on ebay and be very clear about the condition. This made coins that previously had market values of $200 to $300, be reset to something just north of bullion silver. These milk spots have occurred after they have been graded by NGC or PCGS, and have happened to coins that are stored in optimum conditions (temperature and humidity). At moderngradedcoins.com, we have had several coins that were nice MS69 grades change to virtual junk because of this milk spot problem.
Now I'm not an expert on milk spots and why they occur, but some high level and quick research reveals this....THE WHITE STAINS (OR "MILK SPOTS") RESULT FROM THE PLANCHET (FLAN) CLEANING AND PREPARATION PROCESS.
This is the Mint's official position: The coins are bullion coins. They are not collector coins. They are sold as one ounce of silver. If this is the case, then they should market them as bullion, not low mintage silver coins. The Mint knows that there is a problem. The problem has existed since 1988, when the Maple Leaf coin was first introduced. The Mint says that there is nothing that they can do about the problem.
Frankly, the Canadian Mint should be totally embarrassed. They created a product with these ridiculous deficiencies, and it was targeted to the sophisticated collector marketplace Based on mintage, that certainly was the case, despite their claims to the contrary. I would use extra caution before buying any Canadian product without first giving the item months and months of maturing.
So this is mostly just a rant because obviously he lost a lot of money investing in this series. But he does bring up some very valid points to think about when considering investing in future NCLT series.
The fact is... and you can mark the calendar here as it's a first for a long long time: I totally agree with the Mint's point of view here. These wildlife bullion actually ARE bullions! Yes, they are limited mintage bullion, but still, they are sold by the mint as 1oz of silver bullion... not as NCLT.
If you want to pay a premium or grade them, it's up to you, but a bullion is bullion. The Mint never (correct me here if I'm wrong) marketed them as NCLT and sold them following the silver spot price. Distributors and second market collector did saw them as NCLT, but not the Mint.
Should the Mint invest to correct this milk spots issue? Not sure on this one... depends of the needed investments, but this is another point.
I agree with TIPIT, the coins were released and initially sold as bullion coins. True, they did not have an unlimited mintage like the SMLs, but they were nonetheless considered bullion by the RCM. Dealers and collectors tried to make them something more and tried to elevate them even higher by having large numbers graded to support premium prices.
Modern bullion coins are avidly collected but such collectors need to understand that they are buying coins that are struck for commerce/trade not as "perfect" NCLT collectibles.
@bugsbun: It is very unlikely that your gold polar bear coin will develop milk spots. It is produced under very different conditions vs. the RCM's bullion coins and such coins do not have the same "spotty" history.
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
100%. These are bullion and any semi-numis properties are a result of dealer and collector actions.
BUT, the fact is milk spots are an issue for all types of SMLs that the Mint should feel shame for failing to address. If circulation coins turned purple due to no other factor than age, I'm sure the RCM would fix that. Other bullion producers around the world largely manage to avoid milk spots. Why can't our 'world-class' mint do the same?!!
I have to agree with the blogger, bullion or not, is it too much to expect that these bullion coins stay minty fresh? I collect bullion coins from around the world, and the Wildlife series are the ONLY ones that exhibit this problem. Oddly enough, I've never had milk spots on regular SMLs, just the Wildlife ones. It really ruins their appeal.
If I just wanted bullion for as cheap as I could get it, I'd get regular SMLs or generic rounds. Most people buy the Wildlife series to collect something different, not just to bullion stack. After the Wildlife series was done, I was hoping that the RCM would do another bullion series, but now I don't even know if I'd bother with it.
None of my wildlife coins have developed milk spots yet. Even if they are just bullion you think that the mint could fix their problem. The U.S. Mint doesn't have that problem with their 'just' bullion silver eagles.
A million non-circulation strikes might be small south of the border, but up here in the Great White North, that is like a Noachian flood of coins. Hardly an "investment" other than the bullion value. Then, to spend all that money, sending essentially bullion to for grading and slabbing seems crazy.
Perhaps the original blogger needs some cheese, with that whine...
That series (milkspots on the coins) learned me to be "easier" with bullion coins. I tried 3 sets in the different conditions, and the 3-rd one currently clear, but I do not mind already.
Let it be "milkspotted", anyway, even clear coin doesn't priced much more. Still keep them as the semi-numismatic collection. And as series switched to "Koala".
Just another nail in the coffin for the market for "perfect" MS69-70 coins.
FWIW, I agree with the RCM's stance. They were minted and released as bullion coins, not collector coins. They aren't responsible for the fact that some people were paying huge premiums for "perfect" looking bullion coins.
Have heard of a justification for the milk spots that makes myself feel better about them. That is, that that milk spots identify a real RCM pure silver coin v.s. a copy.
Hopefully the new 2014 design on the SML, now with a stripped/beveled/brushed/ background, alleviates the milk spots
I really would like the mint to address / fix the milk spotting problem, it's a real nuisance to have my maples develop them at random. I'm almost scared at times to open my draw to look at my collection of maples.
I don't believe this is just a RCM problem though. I've had some aus and other coins develop spots as well.
As for the wildlife series they are marketed as bullion and any increase in value was due to the dealers / open market. The coin is always only worth what people are willing to pay for them.
On a side note I don't have hard evidence, but I believe capsules tend to cause the problem more frequently. I find my mylar maples hold up better, as well as my maples in tubes. It could just be my imagination, but that's what I've experienced.
@bugsbun Don't worry, your gold coin won't have any milk spot, nor any other numismatic coins RCM releases, this is 100% sure! Even the new SML "replicas" won't have any.
The numismatic coins from RCM are world-class quality and don't develop any milk spots over time. This is an issue in their bullion minting process (cleaning, I'm not an expert in this matter), but the numismatic coins follow a whole different minting process.
I agree with you guys, I don't know what the problem is, but there is no milk spots in other mint's bullions and shouldn't be THAT hard to fix... but my main point is this kind of "coins" (which shoulnd't be called as such anyway as they actually are bullion) shouldn't even be sent by the mint in capsule or in original Mint sheets. These are intended to be exchanged for raw precious metal only, by weight. But collectors are collectors and began to collect a "complete set of SML"... from which the 1997 one was the rarest non-privy and hardest to find... price go obviously up.
If I begin to collect McDonald's burger because I think it's funny... Would I have the right to go at a McDonald's now and complain because my "2012 high value" burger got rotten in the last two years?!
Anyway, this is different point of views, but the point is clear here: the Mint sold them as bullion, and therefore shouldn't be blamed for this. If fingers have to be pointed, they should be at all dealers and sellers who lured the collectors in qualifying these as collector series, numismatic coins, etc.
Quote: Don't worry, your gold coin won't have any milk spot, nor any other numismatic coins RCM releases, this is 100% sure! Even the new SML "replicas" won't have any.
The numismatic coins from RCM are world-class quality and don't develop any milk spots over time. This is an issue in their bullion minting process (cleaning, I'm not an expert in this matter), but the numismatic coins follow a whole different minting process.
I wouldn't stay this... Unfortunately I do have couple of examples of RCM proof coins, that have small milk-spots or tarnish on the edge:
1989 Proof Silver Maple Leaf (very small white area visible from particular angle) 2004 Arctic Fox Proof (edge tarnish) 2005 Canada Lynx Proof(edge tarnish) 2009 Summer Moon Mask Proof(very small milk spot, visible in particular angle) 2010 Raindrop Crystal Maple Proof(edge tarnish)
But, need to say, that all the coins above I got in the secondary market and do not know, how the were stored / handled. None of the coins, that I bought new from RCM / dealers developed imperfections.
I bought a Wolf wildlife bullion still in plastic at a discount because there was a 'milk spot'. Took it out of the plastic at home and turns out the blemish was on the plastic not coin! Further to the wildlife series, it seems the aftermarket responded to milk spots by painting the coins.
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Posted 01/23/2014 11:20 am
