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PCGS Certifies First Confirmed 1974-D Aluminum Lincoln Cent

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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2014  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the story that goes with the Toven Specimen (see the link Bobby gave above) is considered reliable, congressmen were given examples of the coins (presumably for them to examine and discuss) with little or no controls over what the congressmen subsequently did with them.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 01/30/2014  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Quote:
The United States government closed its investigation of any missing 1974 aluminum cents by February 1976 having found, in the government's own words "no evidence of criminal intent" by anyone possessing any of the coins, according to a February 21, 1976 story in Numismatic News.



So I guess they are legal to own.

No, the investigation found that there was not criminal intent by those who possessed the coins. That means they won't charge some one who has one with a crime. But the government still maintains that they are government property and have to be surrendered to the government. So they still are not legal to own. If they find out you have one and they ask for it back you have to give it to them.
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52Raymo's Avatar
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 Posted 01/30/2014  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would think that his dad being an employee of the Denver mint when he took it that the government would have an easy time laying claim to it.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Chadwick's Avatar
United States
271 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2014  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chadwick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have mixed feelings about this. I can't help but think about that poor family that unknowingly sent in the 1933 Gold coins to the authorities for authentication and had them confiscated. After a court battle, they got nothing. I still feel like they got unfairly shafted.
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chzman's Avatar
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 Posted 01/30/2014  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chzman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So the Gov. can circulate counterfeit coins, and then put you in jail if you do not return it? Sounds like entrapment to me! I thought that possession was 9/10 of the law, I get coins sent to me in the mail, I keep all of them.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 01/31/2014  03:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not in the case of a stolen item. The coin was never released and property of the U.S. Mint. Try telling a policeman that the stolen car you are found in was yours because it is in your possession and that is 9/10 th's the law.
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justin3651's Avatar
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 Posted 01/31/2014  06:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add justin3651 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"So the Gov. can circulate counterfeit coins, and then put you in jail if you do not return it? Sounds like entrapment to me! I thought that possession was 9/10 of the law,"
1. circulate what counterfeit coins?
2. If you mean the aluminum cents, no, they can't put you in jail. They can demand their property back though.
3. Entrapment of what? no one is in any trouble for having them.
4. No, if I take your newspaper or lawn mower does that make it mine because I possess it?
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chzman's Avatar
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 Posted 01/31/2014  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chzman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You guys are taking me way to serious lol, its Friday lets laugh a little!
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
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 Posted 01/31/2014  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am thinking of the 1958 doubled die that supposedly never reached circulation. I have seen some people willing to go to the 60,000-100,000 range to own one of those. I am sure if the sales stay out of the press, no one is the wiser. Its all about publicity; if the topic at hand seems to point to the US government in a negative way, and it strikes a nerve, and the government knee-jerks and sends the agents in to retrieve the coin with a warrant in hand, so be it. If the owner is a businessman, it can be claimed as a loss. I am not so sure that can be said for an individual. Simply keep a copy of the warrant or official paperwork for tax purposes.

I am sure some of these coins were made for circulation. The Mint wanted to see the longevity of certain metal compositions, and the associated costs to do each type of metal. I am sure the aluminum coin and zinc was tried again. I think the 1943 composition of zinc was a far better example of what is out there in circulation with all these newer cents (1983 and forward).

Why cant the mint allow some test coins to hit the streets and simply stamp the back with some sort of reward - like a current year mint set - for turning in the coin after the date designated on the back of the test coin. It could be subtle. Heck if people are still pulling older copper DDO's out of circulated rolls, a typical test coin may be at the mercy of collectors in order to be turned in. They can put a clause on these coins, that if they are sold for more than face value, they are subject to confiscation. That should keep the value down. Simply put a notice on the US Mint site, saying...for example; be on the lookout for the aluminum test nickel that was released into circulation in May of 2012....Gives plenty of time in circulation to find out if the product is will last.

As for siezure; I think the mule coins, like an the wrong planchet struck by a larger demonination (quarter hammered by an Ike die) or anything extremely weird would be an OPPPS, vice a test coin, and those would show more of an embarassment to the mint. I dunno, Its all heresay until the person gets a summons/warrant from the US Treasury.
Edited by Collector-Corner
01/31/2014 09:32 am
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
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 Posted 01/31/2014  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't mean to put us back on topic, but the 1974 D cent is going up for sale http://www.coinweek.com/featured-ne...tes-auction/

From CoinWeek:


Quote:
Rumored to exist for years but not confirmed until now, the first verified 1974 Lincoln Cent struck in aluminum at the Denver Mint will be displayed by Heritage Auctions at the upcoming Long Beach Coin, Currency, Stamp & Sports Collectible Expo, January 30 â€" February 1, 2014. It then will be offered as one of the highlights of the Heritage Signature Auction during the Central States Numismatic Society convention near Chicago, April 23 â€" 27, 2014.


Any takers?
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chzman's Avatar
United States
1137 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chzman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll start it of with 1 dollar!
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 02/01/2014  09:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rumored to exist for years? This is the first I have ever heard of even the possibility that one existed. Rumors of the Philadelphia coins sure, but not a Denver.
Edited by Conder101
02/01/2014 09:15 am
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ErrorCoins222's Avatar
United States
1699 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2014  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ErrorCoins222 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Rumored to exist for years? This is the first I have ever heard of even the possibility that one existed. Rumors of the Philadelphia coins sure, but not a Denver.


I think there was a personal testimonial from an ex Denver Mint employee in either CoinWorld or Numismatic News a while back that discussed their creation and possible survival.
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 Posted 02/02/2014  9:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ironically the thing that would make it, possibly, legal to own is the very thing that probably doesn't exist. Documentation.

What I mean is, the the Government would have to prove that the coin was struck in Denver in the first place. Without official records all we have is Hearsay.

Sure it is believable, but is it true? Probably.

But being true in the Numismatic World and being true in a Court of Law are two different things.

First the Gov. would have to PROVE such a coin was made. The statement by the son of a Mint Official is not PROOF of anything.

"I found these in a plastic bag my Dad had" is only EVIDENCE that the coin was found in a plastic bag that belonged to a former mint Employee. It is NOT Proof.

The letter to the editor of a Numismatic Magazine by a Mint Employee is better evidence, but again without supporting documentation is Hearsay.

The bottom line is that if the Mint can not prove they made any in Denver then they can't lay claim to the coin. I'm not even sure it would be considered a counterfeit because it was made in Aluminium instead of Brass.
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denco7's Avatar
United States
2543 Posts
 Posted 02/04/2014  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin is completely different than the 1933 $20, and according to THIS article, it is legal to own.
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