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1970-D Roosevelt DDO - Which One?

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jay4202472000's Avatar
United States
853 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2014  9:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jay4202472000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is the first Roosevelt doubled die I have found. I don't have volume 2 of the CPG, so the only photos I have to go by is CONECA's and the 3 shown on NGC's variety catalogue. My best conclusion is 1970-D 10c DDR-001 (FS-801)(1-R-V-CW). The doubling on 004 (FS-802) seems a tad stronger than the coin I found, but NGC doesn't list any attributes to go by. NGC also has photos of 003. My coin looks similar to it also, but again, no attributes. However, I am pretty sure I have matched the vertical die scratch leaving the top of the B shown on stage C & D of 001 on CONECA. Take a look and see what you folks think. I also added a shot for MM placement comparison. If you need another pic of something, let me know. Thanks all!

http://varietyvista.com/1970DDDR001 dime.htm

A member on a different forum, that is trustworthy, said it looked just like the photos in the CPG for FS-801. I just want as many opinions as possible before I draw a final conclusion. You never know when you'll run into a Roosevelt expert.

1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?

1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?

1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2014  02:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin is suffering from two things.
1. The coin was struck with a well aged die. Note the edges of the devices that are closest to the rims. This area show die wear and even flow lines start forming making the field rough looking. The devices do get much worse as time goes on. Eventually they start to snow drift between the fields and the devices.
1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?
2. The "ERI" on AMERICA is showing Machine Doubling. The machine/dies had movement during the strike. MAking the marks you see there. Note that the devices are not enlarged, but reduced in size. The slightest movement, damages the devices. That is what you are seeing on your coin. It does look worse on different strikes. I found a proof die that probably has the strongest Machine Doubling:
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_01.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_02.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_03.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_04.jpg
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...VICES_05.jpg
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Jayman931's Avatar
United States
2651 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2014  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jayman931 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't seen that one yet Coop. You can really see the how the devices are smaller than they should be. Nice!
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jay4202472000's Avatar
United States
853 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2014  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jay4202472000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look at the top left corners of the letters. Definately splits present. With all due respect, and for you coop I have much, I have to disagree.
Valued Member
United States
151 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  07:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add djay1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like FS-801. Can you post pics of AM and UNUM?
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chzman's Avatar
United States
1137 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  09:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chzman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you get a close ups of one of those splits? I believe that the glare may be making MD look like a split. IMO
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jay4202472000's Avatar
United States
853 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jay4202472000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The splits were there to begin with under my loupe, sans glare. I'll get the AM & UNUM up in a few minutes.
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Jayman931's Avatar
United States
2651 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jayman931 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks flat and shelf like. Also notice how it gets thinner as you move down each letter? This is because the die was loose. I'm 95% this is MD. Better pictures would help without the glare near what you think are split serifs.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to see more images of the AMERICA. Maybe a wider shot to see what is going on. Something I missed looking at the first few times is the bottom of the "R" and partial view of the "C". I use a process where I put images of two different coins on top each other. I cut exactly to the outside edges of the devices, then size them to the same width. This gives a view to see if the devices are the same size or wider/taller. If they are the same, it is machine doubled. If one is wider/taller, then it is hub doubled. Remember to use a coin from the same mint and year to see what is normal. Here is an example:
1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?
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jay4202472000's Avatar
United States
853 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2014  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jay4202472000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the tip coop. I'll work on this this afternoon.
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jay4202472000's Avatar
United States
853 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2014  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jay4202472000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry guys. I've taken over 30 pics and these are the best I can get. I hope these prove to you what I can see. I have the AM & UNUM pics and the best close up of the splits I could get. I wanted to do the side by side comparison for you, Coop, but I don't have a 70-D in my possession that doesn't have the proof style reverse. I don't know if it's just the flame or if there is any difference in the letters, so I don't want to contaminate the evidence. Take a look and thanks to all for doing so!


1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?

1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?

1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?

1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?

1970-D-Roosevelt-DDO---Which-One?
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