|
This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!
To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
Replies: 57 / Views: 10,451 |
|
|
|
Valued Member
Australia
338 Posts |
I agree, my assumption is based on human history for the last 2,000+ years where silver/gold have been a store of wealth. Going forward, I have more faith in the Chinese and Russians lust for gold and silver than the US/western banking system.
@basebal21 One thing I forgot to mention, do you believe that anyone in London in 1905 would have thought that circulating British coins would be devalued from 0.925 to 0.5 silver in the next 25 years? Let alone total collapse of the empire in the next 50.
Edited by OneDollarMule 03/21/2014 11:03 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
@one the difference between us and Rome is technology and more specifically nukes. It's no longer just a huge man power force that gives army's strength. As far as Ukraine if we or Europe had the spine we could have stopped it, we just chose not to. It wouldn't have been that hard from a military standpoint but the world doesn't have leaders that want to reign in Putin so he wasn't. Nukes are a game changer though, if you can hit anyone anywhere people aren't going to come pick fights with you like they did with Rome.
One day the us will fall and not be the top dog, that day isn't today or in our lifetime. It took Rome a couple centuries and will take the same here. The world economy is based off us buying. China is nothing without us buying from them, Europe could isolate itself in a way but if we fall Russia is their new master, which one do you think they'd prefer. It's going to take several decades and really centuries of completely changing the global economy for the world to move off the dollar and isolate the effects of its failure.
I mentioned wealth because there's too much. You can't make the math work to make silver money. You either have to destroy the wealth or put so little silver in it doesn't matter.
As far as inflation it just doesn't matter silvers a commodity not money. 5 was more money in the early 1900s than the 90s yet there it was back at 5 again for more than a decade. Inflation matters for commodities that are necessary like food, silver is a luxury though. If anything it works against the price of silver. If your money is worth less than you have less spending money for luxuries like silver. It's a myth that it beats inflation. It all depends on when you bought it. If you bought an ounce in 1900 there's more years where it's behind the inflation rise than ahead or kept up with. It's just the current spike that makes it true but it's never brought up that for most of the 80s all of the 90s and the first half of the 2000s it was way behind if you bought in the 60s or before and you were underwater from a purchase in the 70s/80s.
It has a history of violent rises and falls not gradual appreciation year to year. So yes there are periods it beats it and long periods it doesn't.
One other thing I haven't mentioned was think of how many people hopped on the silver train late buying in the 30s and 40s causing increased demand. They've been burned badly and certainly aren't still buying like that if it all. It's kind of a self perpetuating cycle. It goes up everyone wants it demand goes up. It tops out big investors sell prices fall and a lot of people are trying to sell and salvage the value continuing the fall. With the stocks now though people can ride the 2 and 3 dollar waves in a way they can't with physical buys. That gives a level of support that wouldn't otherwise be there as long as they're timing it right and happy with the returns.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Also the current us empire isn't based on the models of the past. We really aren't colonizing like they were. We have bases for influence and rapid deployment but those countries run independently. We aren't susceptible to revolutions like they were. Behind military strength though it's based largely in buying goods. The world makes a ton of money selling us stuff. Money wins over ideology almost every time and as long as they're making money they're happy. It's why we wouldn't have open warfare with China, to much economic dependence.
|
|
Valued Member
Australia
338 Posts |
@ basebal21 Military power comes not only from hardware bu the intent to use it. TO say "we could have smashed them!" but don't actually do anything is equivalent to losing. Keep in mind the U.S has not "won" a war since WW2. Rome won its battles not only through strength in numbers but also through advanced military fighting techniques and superior technology. Legionaries had some of the best arms, armor and training of any warrior in the ancient world.
Nukes are for sure a game-changer but people believed WW1 would never occur because of the mass devastation that would ensure. It didn't stop the great European powers though.
The idea that the US will take centuries to devolve is contrary to Human history. My last point towards the British empire's catastrophic collapse in only a few years is proof.
Your concept of wealth is stuck in FIAT system, paper money =/= wealth. You've also said how abundant and easy-to-obtain silver is?
Your view of taking 1900 is a bad example, if you want to look at inflation, look at the current FIAT system. That is, inflation post 1964, you will see there is no deflationary period. Its only 1 way, that way is up.
The U.S's current empire can only exist with trillions being spent to hold it together. Do you believe china will keep selling to the U.S for a second longer than it needs to? Once they stop selling, that's game-over for the U.S and that day is a lot closer than you might think.
You seem to be stuck that the world wont change, the current system will keep going. I'm no doomsday prepper, I'm simply looking at the facts and past trends and making a logical conclusion.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
I specifically said the world will change, it doesn't happen over night. European military power is an oxymoron as well. People didn't think the world wars would happen because they believed you could appease tyrants. In typical European fashion the continent was taken over same thing that's happened through out history. Saying we haven't won a war since ww2 is false. Iraq was deli mushed both times, Afghanistan was destroyed easily, the Cold War was won as well as smaller battles throughout. The Iraqi army was 4th strongest in the world and it took a weekend to destroy. Rebuilding and westernizing a country is different than winning the war. The wars were won, colonization wasn't. Again you don't change the world over night which people apparently though we were going to undo thousands of years of culture and civil war in a year or two. Once you start talking pullout the efforts already lost. I was directly comparing silvers cost aka the value against inflation. The only reason it's not a good comparison is because it destroys it's luster and myths. It's value hasn't kept up except in specific time frames during a spike. That same ounce cost as many dollars in the 90s as it did 90 years prior. That's a loss of value. Fiat money is money. It's been around 50 years as the only money and started 100s of years ago when China made the first bills out of leather. The worlds not ever moving back to pm money, there's yo many people and yo much wealth it mathematically can't be done without insane values on pms send minuscule amounts in currency. Silver is incredible available. There's at least a million ounces on ebay in all forms at any given time. Teens there's a few thousand websites I could go to send have it In my mailbox by the end of the week. That's not rare or a shortage. I explained above the differences between the us position and empires based on colonization. Yes china will keep selling to us. No market can replace our buying power. Africa is decades if not centuries behind the modern world, they won't fill the hole, neither will Europe or South America. We're a consumption nation. Got look at the largest consumers of things it's the us by far for most things with the second country not even close. China would destroy itself cutting off sales. Plenty of countries can combine to make what they make for their prices, only one country can buy as much of the goods as the us does. There's plenty of 2nd and 3rd world countries that would love the economic boost we provide. The day china voluntarily cuts off sales with the us is the day china is no longer economically relevant in the modern world. That's trillions out of their pocket for a neck my that's sole reason for its growth is business with the us send us companies. As far as Ukraine it's terrible for their people and Putins getting his way but we have elections. It won't be long till there's some changes at the top and Putin probably won't be able yo run circles around the next guy bb
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
There's nothing wrong with.liking silver, I like it I get some. But when the conversation switches yo the demise of the US dollar or silver holding wealth it's just wrong. The top dog doesn't fall without massive repercussions. No point in preparing for the end of modern society chances of survival are slim short of having a fortress.
The dollar has survived far worse yikes than this. It's not going anywhere in our life time unless you live to 2 or 300. Then it could. Money only has value because of the military behind it and because people say so. The world isn't going yo bankrupt itself and bring back the Middle Ages. People in power like their power. Destroying the global economy over ideology is the fastest way to lose your power.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5818 Posts |
This is my view of how influential US is to China, back in the 80's when I was in China, everyone in China want to have a piece of the action in our western states, but were held back due to government control or regulation. It doesn't matter if you're a wealthy Chinese business man or business owners, your ideas or strategies can't blossom. Communism has a stronger foothold when the older parties (Chairman) is in control.
The mid 90's sees the newer generation of government official's moving into office, thereby taking control and implementing western idealism, but at a slow...slow pace, at the tail end of 1999, regulation started to relax, as long as there's money flowing into the new party, westerners see opportunities in making wealth in China, this is especially true for Chinese-American grasping the opportunities.
In mid 2005, that's when most business and real estate really took off, within the next 5-7 years, there was many self made millionaires that they started buying real estate in other part of the world, like US and Canada specifically, also buying other valuable commodities like PM, but preferred the yellow shiny metal rather then the dull white silver.
I am only speculating that within the next 10 years, the role will reverse that the US will depend more on their trading partners, more of our valuable properties is being sold to foreigner, and the forever question about how we can fix the US deficits if the government don't have a resolution from the ever increasing national debt. I don't have the same outlook that I once have when I was younger, that the US will have the same economic growth and power when President Regan in office. I just don't like the 'CHANGE' as Obama keep saying when campaigning for presidency, or "I have a plan" that he never revealed after taking office. Perhaps after the second term.
OK! Done ranting...PM will have a place, but I wouldn't hold it at top spot, maybe second? LOL!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
808 Posts |
OneDollarMule said Quote: However still no mention of the exponential devaluation of the USD. In response to your reply to bekz, look at Rome and if thats too far back, look at the British Empire. The military is only decimated after the country loses its economic power, that's how its always been. The US Dollar certainly isn't the post war British Pound. As long as the World(TM) continues to grow rich off "excessive" American consumerism and the monetary policy that makes it possible, don't look for any sort of profound economic reckoning. America has entered a new age of debt driven global economic imperialism and the whole world is busy singing our tune. And the whole world will be culpable when the end game finally comes. That said, gold and silver, for those who can afford it, is a fine hedge against uncertainty. Gold and silver will always be worth something. However, few people these days can afford to take that much hard earned savings out of play and let it sit in PMs. We may not like it or approve of it, but we have to play the current economic cards we're dealt. Waiting around for $50 silver while ignoring other investment opportunities can be a costly mistake.
Edited by coinwatch 03/22/2014 4:15 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
Is it possible to see 50 again?
Sure it is. Many assets retrace back to their historical highs,, EVENTUALLY. When it happens, none of us can know.
That is where the element of time comes in. Sure, we could see it happen. But are we talking 10 years? 5 years? 50 years? 100 years?
As Mr Coinwatch puts it perfectly and I agree 100% with him, and I qoute him directly: "We may not like it or approve of it, but we have to play the current economic cards we're dealt. Waiting around for $50 silver while ignoring other investment opportunities can be a costly mistake."
As a trader, I would be broke and without a job if I solely placed trades or waited on silver or gold to move higher or even lower. You must keep an open mind.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
Yup... You are EXACT(!!) in your thoughts here...
Sure there's a great deal of upside potential for silver.. however in my opinion I don't see a great trend towards silver going up a whole lot anytime soon. (I have only one very remote circumstance where I could see PM's gaing a LOT of ground very fast... )
Otherwise right now the gov't is supporting the markets with QE... a trained monkey could pick winning stocks and generate a reasonable return right now.. So I would say the GREATER portion of my finances is in equities right now.. I don't hold bonds and probably never will.. and only a small 5% of the rest is in PM's.
Look how well the S&P 500 has done since the start of this year... and compare that to silver... has anything in the market really changed? Follow the green... run from the red!
If you're in PM's in a small % I would say just hold... if you're in PM's in a major way.. I would say sell.. and get your money into a growth rate now.
|
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
183 Posts |
as share prices rise their risk/reward ratio usually becomes less attractive. being cautious in whatever investments you choose is probably the sensible thing to do right now.
HH
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts |
@AgCoinAu
Yea its really about going with what works. I could see (and yet I cringe as I type, say and think this) someone saying, "ok I dont own a lick of PMs for my portfolio" and setting some money there, granted it might never work out for them in their life time if they sell...
but yea, for now there are better places to put money into rather than silver. Heck, even if say you did not want to put money into stocks, you could look at palladium if you were set on only buying metals,,, thats doing a great deal better than silver,gold or plat.... in fact palladium is in an uptrend... and thats a great place and time to be a buyer. Better to be buying with rising prices and in an uptrend than to see your money either going lower or doing nothing at all.
|
| |
Replies: 57 / Views: 10,451 |
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use
|
| Coin Community Forum |
© 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums |
| It took 0.36 seconds to rattle this change. |
 |
|
| |
| |