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1821 Zacetecas 2 Reales Cast Made With Good Period Silver

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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  5:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Realeswatcher, Swamperbob and Matt Bopple - not really sure of the significance of this piece but we just tested this piece with SEM/EDS and it came up with Ag (90%) and good Pt, Au & Cu as a regal but its cast. Zero coin ring due to its manufacturing process. Its not a shipwreck but it seems casting may have been around past 1815 with WOI issues. I am just not sure what the standard is for WOI cast issues after 1815 in the realm of War of Indepedence. This piece may ADJUST? some history books to cast pieces and this period? Thoughts? Anything? Significant?

John Lorenzo
United States

http://www.ebay.com/itm/38083599359....m1497.l2649
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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The weight is 5.7 grams - I am going to call it a Shipwreck item. The SEM/EDS Ag reading was actually 96% (L. Beck Effect and probably some seawater copper leaching). False - alarm ...
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United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2014  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Saw that piece the other week... My impression on sight was that it was cast as opposed to water salvage or ground find just because it has such even, yet moderate-to-heavy, porosity. Usually when a piece is that eaten, I expect to see sections of the coin which are REALLY eaten away, and some which are less so - not as uniform as that. However, that of course isn't set in stone...

Now, if it WAS simply a cast, I don't think there's any intended implication to that... As you know, there are struck Kleeberg-type contemporary counterfeits (copper alloy, yes?) of 1821 Zs 2R... why couldn't there be a simple cast?

However, if you're finding good metallic content with that much remaining weight... wouldn't make sense fir it to be a contemporary counterfeit, would it? Also, the "no ring" trait could be caused by the seawear, I think - playing with really "razor"-type pieces (either cob or heavily-worn El Caz) they often give more of a clink than a silver ring.

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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2014  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I put it up on E-Bay as a study piece starting at $0.99 - not sure if an 1821 Zs can be shipwreck - linked? The weight loss maybe to some type of aggressive post mint damage (i.e., acid etch)? Most shipwreck pieces as I mentioned make there way to 99% Ag after the Cu slowly leaches out but this was minor - the toal lack of ANY coin ring is real weird which is what this Barcelona collector indicated cast. Even chemically etched coins retain coin wing with such MINIMAL weight loss - its been the No.1 challenging coin so far that has crossed my desk in 2014.

Its a WEIRD period piece. Its a pass-a-long piece ... I sell and I buy. See the coin and write-up under ebay Seller: johnmenc
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United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2014  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
its been the No.1 challenging coin so far that has crossed my desk in 2014. ........ Its a pass-a-long piece


John, if it's so challenging, you should keep it until something else comes along to help make sense of it...
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serial's Avatar
Australia
539 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2014  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add serial to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
have you thought of fire damage then cleaned? the heat would ruin the tone and the surface would have been damaged
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United States
1962 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2014  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"have you thought of fire damage then cleaned"

I like the possibility of acid-etching more. Fire usually bubbles the surface more, no? And, similar to sea-wear, it's not usually that uniform.
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